The Definitive "How To Search for Low Tier Business Awards"
Jul 18, 2012, 12:57 pm
#1156
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,874
ANY partner flight will price at the low level, always (assuming there is availability). That includes AF, KL, AS, AZ, etc. Note that for going to Europe, you'll only be able to search AF and KL on the Delta website, and will have to call for AZ, UX, or other partners. Making an account with FlyingBlue and searcing at airfrance.us will show most partner availability, but only the low/classic awards are bookable from Delta. You can also use ExpertFlyer to search for availability (note that only classic awards are bookable with DL miles).
What you might be running into is a medium or high level award for a single leg of the trip causing the entire segment to price at that level. For example if you find ATL-IAD-CDG-FLR with ATL-IAD on DL and IAD-CDG-FLR on AF, just having the ATL-IAD leg pricing at medium would cause the entire outbound to price at medium. The segments on a partner airline would always be low miles.
A low level business award is 50k miles one way and medium is 100k miles one way. So using the example above, if your outbound had a single leg on DL metal that was medium priced, and the return was all low priced or entirely on partner airlines, it would price out at 150k miles in Business (100k miles out, 50k miles in).
Also if you are trying to do the open jaw online, it might not price properly even though it is legal. That's why you might be seeing 200k business award from AF. It's really doing it as two low priced tickets.
To avoid this, it's best to try to have all segments on partner airlines, which gaurantees low level awards. If you can't find flights out of ATL, then you'll need to look for low level DL awards to get to the US departure point. Make sure you follow the instructions in the beginning of the post, looking for one way, direct flights segment by segment.
Make sure you really do follow the instructions in the first post of this thread. There is plenty of availability. You don't even have to do it the hard way, just plug in ATL-FLR (one way) in the award search in business for any days around 4/30 and you'll pull up multiple options for 100k. Note that it is one way for 100k, but if you then find a one way return for 100k, they will price together as a single round trip for 100k (not added together).
For the return, just find a direct CDG-ATL on AF or AMS-ATL on KL or FCO-ATL on AZ. You can either drive to those cities for the return flight, or fly from pretty much any european city to the european departure point. There is always plenty of intra-europe availability.
What you might be running into is a medium or high level award for a single leg of the trip causing the entire segment to price at that level. For example if you find ATL-IAD-CDG-FLR with ATL-IAD on DL and IAD-CDG-FLR on AF, just having the ATL-IAD leg pricing at medium would cause the entire outbound to price at medium. The segments on a partner airline would always be low miles.
A low level business award is 50k miles one way and medium is 100k miles one way. So using the example above, if your outbound had a single leg on DL metal that was medium priced, and the return was all low priced or entirely on partner airlines, it would price out at 150k miles in Business (100k miles out, 50k miles in).
Also if you are trying to do the open jaw online, it might not price properly even though it is legal. That's why you might be seeing 200k business award from AF. It's really doing it as two low priced tickets.
To avoid this, it's best to try to have all segments on partner airlines, which gaurantees low level awards. If you can't find flights out of ATL, then you'll need to look for low level DL awards to get to the US departure point. Make sure you follow the instructions in the beginning of the post, looking for one way, direct flights segment by segment.
Make sure you really do follow the instructions in the first post of this thread. There is plenty of availability. You don't even have to do it the hard way, just plug in ATL-FLR (one way) in the award search in business for any days around 4/30 and you'll pull up multiple options for 100k. Note that it is one way for 100k, but if you then find a one way return for 100k, they will price together as a single round trip for 100k (not added together).
For the return, just find a direct CDG-ATL on AF or AMS-ATL on KL or FCO-ATL on AZ. You can either drive to those cities for the return flight, or fly from pretty much any european city to the european departure point. There is always plenty of intra-europe availability.
Last edited by roknroll; Jul 18, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Jul 18, 2012, 1:46 pm
#1157
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: DL Plat, HH Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 17
ANY partner flight will price at the low level, always (assuming there is availability). That includes AF, KL, AS, AZ, etc. Note that for going to Europe, you'll only be able to search AF and KL on the Delta website, and will have to call for AZ, UX, or other partners. Making an account with FlyingBlue and searcing at airfrance.us will show most partner availability, but only the low/classic awards are bookable from Delta. You can also use ExpertFlyer to search for availability (note that only classic awards are bookable with DL miles).
Only interested in KL, AF, or DL. So that takes care of it.
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What you might be running into is a medium or high level award for a single leg of the trip causing the entire segment to price at that level. For example if you find ATL-IAD-CDG-FLR with ATL-IAD on DL and IAD-CDG-FLR on AF, just having the ATL-IAD leg pricing at medium would cause the entire outbound to price at medium. The segments on a partner airline would always be low miles.
So how to avoid this other than non-stop? Separately, one option was ATL-CDG direct and it was 200k for the round trip. Is that lack of availability at the low tier?
A low level business award is 50k miles one way and medium is 100k miles one way. So using the example above, if your outbound had a single leg on DL metal that was medium priced, and the return was all low priced or entirely on partner airlines, it would price out at 150k miles in Business (100k miles out, 50k miles in).
Also if you are trying to do the open jaw online, it might not price properly even though it is legal. That's why you might be seeing 200k business award from AF. It's really doing it as two low priced tickets.
To avoid this, it's best to try to have all segments on partner airlines, which gaurantees low level awards. If you can't find flights out of ATL, then you'll need to look for low level DL awards to get to the US departure point. Make sure you follow the instructions in the beginning of the post, looking for one way, direct flights segment by segment.
Make sure you really do follow the instructions in the first post of this thread. There is plenty of availability. You don't even have to do it the hard way, just plug in ATL-FLR (one way) in the award search in business for any days around 4/30 and you'll pull up multiple options for 100k. Note that it is one way for 100k, but if you then find a one way return for 100k, they will price together as a single round trip for 100k (not added together).
The problem is that the one way tickets are pricing at 200k for one leg, so this will total 200k for the round trip. Additionally, on the Awards calendar this came up as low fare, but when I selected it, it priced it at 200k.
For the return, just find a direct CDG-ATL on AF or AMS-ATL on KL or FCO-ATL on AZ. You can either drive to those cities for the return flight, or fly from pretty much any european city to the european departure point. There is always plenty of intra-europe availability.
Only interested in KL, AF, or DL. So that takes care of it.
[/COLOR]
What you might be running into is a medium or high level award for a single leg of the trip causing the entire segment to price at that level. For example if you find ATL-IAD-CDG-FLR with ATL-IAD on DL and IAD-CDG-FLR on AF, just having the ATL-IAD leg pricing at medium would cause the entire outbound to price at medium. The segments on a partner airline would always be low miles.
So how to avoid this other than non-stop? Separately, one option was ATL-CDG direct and it was 200k for the round trip. Is that lack of availability at the low tier?
A low level business award is 50k miles one way and medium is 100k miles one way. So using the example above, if your outbound had a single leg on DL metal that was medium priced, and the return was all low priced or entirely on partner airlines, it would price out at 150k miles in Business (100k miles out, 50k miles in).
Also if you are trying to do the open jaw online, it might not price properly even though it is legal. That's why you might be seeing 200k business award from AF. It's really doing it as two low priced tickets.
To avoid this, it's best to try to have all segments on partner airlines, which gaurantees low level awards. If you can't find flights out of ATL, then you'll need to look for low level DL awards to get to the US departure point. Make sure you follow the instructions in the beginning of the post, looking for one way, direct flights segment by segment.
Make sure you really do follow the instructions in the first post of this thread. There is plenty of availability. You don't even have to do it the hard way, just plug in ATL-FLR (one way) in the award search in business for any days around 4/30 and you'll pull up multiple options for 100k. Note that it is one way for 100k, but if you then find a one way return for 100k, they will price together as a single round trip for 100k (not added together).
The problem is that the one way tickets are pricing at 200k for one leg, so this will total 200k for the round trip. Additionally, on the Awards calendar this came up as low fare, but when I selected it, it priced it at 200k.
For the return, just find a direct CDG-ATL on AF or AMS-ATL on KL or FCO-ATL on AZ. You can either drive to those cities for the return flight, or fly from pretty much any european city to the european departure point. There is always plenty of intra-europe availability.
Jul 18, 2012, 2:00 pm
#1158
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: DL Plat, HH Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 17
Example
Okay here is one example where I am not sure how I am doing it wrong:
4/16/13 ATL-MXP Nonstop
5/3/13 MXP-ATL Nonstop
The Award Calendar shows this as Low fares both ways, but the total miles is 150k, and not 100k.
4/16/13 ATL-MXP Nonstop
5/3/13 MXP-ATL Nonstop
The Award Calendar shows this as Low fares both ways, but the total miles is 150k, and not 100k.
Jul 18, 2012, 2:30 pm
#1159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
My guess at how you're doing it wrong: You're using the color-coding on the calendar, rather than following the instructions in the first post to find true low band awards on a one-way basis searching by schedule, date by date, then piecing them together.
(Yes, such a work-around is often necessary because the color display is messed up - and has been for years.)
Your ATL-MXP flight is priced at medium in Business; add the low return and the r/t award prices at 150K. I can discern this because, looking at one-ways, this is the pricing by segment:
ATL-MXP 200K (a medium Business TATL award)
MXP-ATL 100K (a low band Business award)
Find awards in each direction at 100K and - most times - it will come together for a 100K r/t.
Really, given all the DL non-stops from ATL (about 15 European cities) and all the DL connections to AF/KL gateways ORD/DTW/IAD/MCO/JFK/BOS/YUL/YYZ... two Business awards at 100K each is entirely possible. Is it more work than it should be? You bet. Close out your successful award search by writing snail-mail to the CEO.
(Yes, such a work-around is often necessary because the color display is messed up - and has been for years.)
Your ATL-MXP flight is priced at medium in Business; add the low return and the r/t award prices at 150K. I can discern this because, looking at one-ways, this is the pricing by segment:
ATL-MXP 200K (a medium Business TATL award)
MXP-ATL 100K (a low band Business award)
Find awards in each direction at 100K and - most times - it will come together for a 100K r/t.
Really, given all the DL non-stops from ATL (about 15 European cities) and all the DL connections to AF/KL gateways ORD/DTW/IAD/MCO/JFK/BOS/YUL/YYZ... two Business awards at 100K each is entirely possible. Is it more work than it should be? You bet. Close out your successful award search by writing snail-mail to the CEO.
Jul 18, 2012, 2:32 pm
#1160
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,874
Look for ATL-CDG or ATL-AMS. If you can find those flights on AF or KL, they will be low price. Once you have the trans-atlantic, you can then find thed intra-europe but DL's site will rpobably not work to search it. For example when you search ATL-MXP it gives you 200k awards on DL metal, but you could do ATL-CDG-MXP on AF and it will book at low. DL.com won't show you that thoug.
Jul 18, 2012, 5:47 pm
#1161
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
The other thing to remember is that sometimes you need to take DL coach at low domestically to get to an AF/KL/AZ gateway. ATL-IAD in Y to connect to a J flight to CDG is tolerable, for instance.
Jul 19, 2012, 2:25 am
#1162
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santo Domingo, Dom. Rep. / Washington, DC
Programs: AA PPro/DL PLT, PPass, Marriott / Hilton Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Hertz Presidents Circle, Amex Plat
Posts: 4,631
Edited to Add: Now UX Seats are gone from the reservation before the ticket was issued. They (Skymiles desk in France) claim that there is no availability in Air Europa even though they put the reservation on hold with the UX flights.
Last edited by SDQBound; Jul 19, 2012 at 5:39 am
Jul 19, 2012, 4:56 am
#1163
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Help with Award ticket
Fairly new at this but I was trying to book an award ticket as follows:
12/18 Rdu-LHR DL
12/24 LHR-CDl DL
12/24 CDG-BCN AF
12/31 BCN-FRA AF
01/01 FRA-ATL DL
01/02 ATL-RDU DL
I checked each flight and it showed the low tier award. Problem is it comes up with 80,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles. Why? I have read prior posts but I maybe missing something. Called Delta and they come up with 100,000 miles. Lost please help.
12/18 Rdu-LHR DL
12/24 LHR-CDl DL
12/24 CDG-BCN AF
12/31 BCN-FRA AF
01/01 FRA-ATL DL
01/02 ATL-RDU DL
I checked each flight and it showed the low tier award. Problem is it comes up with 80,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles. Why? I have read prior posts but I maybe missing something. Called Delta and they come up with 100,000 miles. Lost please help.
Jul 19, 2012, 5:58 am
#1164
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Fairly new at this but I was trying to book an award ticket as follows:
12/18 Rdu-LHR DL
12/24 LHR-CDl DL
12/24 CDG-BCN AF
12/31 BCN-FRA AF
01/01 FRA-ATL DL
01/02 ATL-RDU DL
I checked each flight and it showed the low tier award. Problem is it comes up with 80,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles. Why? I have read prior posts but I maybe missing something. Called Delta and they come up with 100,000 miles. Lost please help.
12/18 Rdu-LHR DL
12/24 LHR-CDl DL
12/24 CDG-BCN AF
12/31 BCN-FRA AF
01/01 FRA-ATL DL
01/02 ATL-RDU DL
I checked each flight and it showed the low tier award. Problem is it comes up with 80,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles. Why? I have read prior posts but I maybe missing something. Called Delta and they come up with 100,000 miles. Lost please help.
Jul 19, 2012, 10:37 am
#1166
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Jul 19, 2012, 1:40 pm
#1168
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Jul 20, 2012, 10:04 am
#1169
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 1,094
I used to be able to book online for a combo of DL/AF or just AF biz seats from LAX-CDG(laying over usually for one night) then CDG-AMM and the return would be straight through with a 4hr or so layover in CDG. Now I can't find anything for Nov. without a message coming up that one or more flights just sold out. I am a Plat. and am the only one traveling. Is it not possible to book AF biz award seats online anymore? I have seen another thread re:AF and am wondering if this is still a temporary glitch or is a phone call required now?
Jul 20, 2012, 10:13 am
#1170
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,874
I used to be able to book online for a combo of DL/AF or just AF biz seats from LAX-CDG(laying over usually for one night) then CDG-AMM and the return would be straight through with a 4hr or so layover in CDG. Now I can't find anything for Nov. without a message coming up that one or more flights just sold out. I am a Plat. and am the only one traveling. Is it not possible to book AF biz award seats online anymore? I have seen another thread re:AF and am wondering if this is still a temporary glitch or is a phone call required now?