The New Scam - F Class is NOT F Class
Dec 17, 2009, 6:13 am
#61
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As I said previously in this thread, remember that the H-up or Q-up are NOT just a H or Q fare with a 'free' ugprade to first. If you price out the straight H fare, it costs LESS than an H-up. So that makes matters even worse.
I've also always received the 1.5xMQM when booking an H-up or Q-up, but all of that has been pre-merger. If this is the 'new' unspoken policy to screw us out of the 1.5x mqm when booking on UP fares, then its time to start sending emails to Jeff and bring it to his attention as well... because my guess is that nobody knows what happened and I doubt it is even intentional.
I've also always received the 1.5xMQM when booking an H-up or Q-up, but all of that has been pre-merger. If this is the 'new' unspoken policy to screw us out of the 1.5x mqm when booking on UP fares, then its time to start sending emails to Jeff and bring it to his attention as well... because my guess is that nobody knows what happened and I doubt it is even intentional.
Dec 17, 2009, 9:23 am
#62
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As I said previously in this thread, remember that the H-up or Q-up are NOT just a H or Q fare with a 'free' ugprade to first. If you price out the straight H fare, it costs LESS than an H-up. So that makes matters even worse.
I've also always received the 1.5xMQM when booking an H-up or Q-up, but all of that has been pre-merger. If this is the 'new' unspoken policy to screw us out of the 1.5x mqm when booking on UP fares, then its time to start sending emails to Jeff and bring it to his attention as well... because my guess is that nobody knows what happened and I doubt it is even intentional.
I've also always received the 1.5xMQM when booking an H-up or Q-up, but all of that has been pre-merger. If this is the 'new' unspoken policy to screw us out of the 1.5x mqm when booking on UP fares, then its time to start sending emails to Jeff and bring it to his attention as well... because my guess is that nobody knows what happened and I doubt it is even intentional.
Dec 17, 2009, 9:28 am
#63
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You have a gift for understatement - it's more than unfortunate, it's deceitful - substitution of an inferior product than the customer was told they were purchasing.
Dec 17, 2009, 9:41 am
#64
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That is the way it has always been. The question is whether there has been a major shift in policy on this or not.
Now mind you, it never quite made sense to me from a business perspective that you would discount the front cabin and still offer the bonus, but that is the way it has always been done.
If this is a new policy, then I would fully expect AirTran to capitalize on it from a PR standpoint, as this removes an incentive to book Delta over AirTran on these discount front cabin fares.
Dec 17, 2009, 10:03 am
#65
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DEN
Posts: 346
I am totally with the OP here. They can make up whatever rules they want, but they have to disclose them. The guy purchased and flew F, according to their published rules, they should credit him for MQMs in F.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSteele View Post
First, threaten a chargeback. There is nothing the airlines fear more than that, or bad publicity.
If that doesn't work, then actually do a chargeback. You have pretty clear documentation that you purchased an F ticket, "fare class" be damned.
Airlines afraid of bad publicity, are you kidding? This is 2009. Fuggedaboutit unless you can create a witty youtube video.
I doubt any credit card company is going to side with this customer in a chargeback dispute such as this. The customer paid for transportation in the F cabin, and got transportation in the F cabin.
You may argue the lost value of the miles, but it would not be reasonable to refund the full ticket price for that.
David
________[QUOTE]
The point of the chargeback is the threat. That will cause them to take him seriously. Even the threat of publicity will cause them to take it seriously.
If you do a chargeback, you are not asking for all of your money back, maybe just some portion that you can document some relationship to your missing MQMs.
As for publicity, has anyone ever read Unscrewed? I have told a company that if they don't do the right thing, I will make it my mission in life to see that my story is in the top three results when someone does a search on your company name in Google. It always works when you use it politely on the right person, no singing required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSteele View Post
First, threaten a chargeback. There is nothing the airlines fear more than that, or bad publicity.
If that doesn't work, then actually do a chargeback. You have pretty clear documentation that you purchased an F ticket, "fare class" be damned.
Airlines afraid of bad publicity, are you kidding? This is 2009. Fuggedaboutit unless you can create a witty youtube video.
I doubt any credit card company is going to side with this customer in a chargeback dispute such as this. The customer paid for transportation in the F cabin, and got transportation in the F cabin.
You may argue the lost value of the miles, but it would not be reasonable to refund the full ticket price for that.
David
________[QUOTE]
The point of the chargeback is the threat. That will cause them to take him seriously. Even the threat of publicity will cause them to take it seriously.
If you do a chargeback, you are not asking for all of your money back, maybe just some portion that you can document some relationship to your missing MQMs.
As for publicity, has anyone ever read Unscrewed? I have told a company that if they don't do the right thing, I will make it my mission in life to see that my story is in the top three results when someone does a search on your company name in Google. It always works when you use it politely on the right person, no singing required.
Dec 17, 2009, 10:51 am
#66
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I'm not sure where you learned about consumer law but I think you had better do a little more studying before you try to give any more advice.
The fact is that sellers have an legal obligation to disclose the terms they are offering in a reasonably accessible manner and in language which an average consumer can easily understand. This is particularly true when there is significantly unequal bargaining power between the seller and the consumer - like when somebody buys a $600 ticket from a multi-billion dollar airline.
One part of my receipt says "Booking Class: F".
Another part says "MSN NW X/MSP NW EWR264.19HR00UPRQ NW X/DTT NW MSN264.18HR00UPRQ USD528.37END ZP MSNMSPEWRDTW XF MSN4.5MSP4.5EWR4.5DTW4.5".
Which of these two do you think meets the legal requirement of disclosure in terms the "average consumer" can understand?
The fact is that sellers have an legal obligation to disclose the terms they are offering in a reasonably accessible manner and in language which an average consumer can easily understand. This is particularly true when there is significantly unequal bargaining power between the seller and the consumer - like when somebody buys a $600 ticket from a multi-billion dollar airline.
One part of my receipt says "Booking Class: F".
Another part says "MSN NW X/MSP NW EWR264.19HR00UPRQ NW X/DTT NW MSN264.18HR00UPRQ USD528.37END ZP MSNMSPEWRDTW XF MSN4.5MSP4.5EWR4.5DTW4.5".
Which of these two do you think meets the legal requirement of disclosure in terms the "average consumer" can understand?
DL has had some rather obvious and glaring IT freebies for years, they're just now finally getting closed off.
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator (1.0x, coach seat, etc).
Dec 17, 2009, 11:14 am
#67
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YES, but skymiles earning is based on the FARE BASIS, not the fare class actually flown. If the latter was the case we would receive NO miles when upgraded as the tickets are booked into a non earning class once the upgrade clears.
I fully understand the difference, YOU apparently do not understand how mileage earning works. Looking at the first letter of the fare basis code WILL always tell you what mileage will be earned (assuming of course that DL had their charts in order).
I fully understand the difference, YOU apparently do not understand how mileage earning works. Looking at the first letter of the fare basis code WILL always tell you what mileage will be earned (assuming of course that DL had their charts in order).
You are flat out wrong in your statement that first character of fare basis code tells you what mileage will be earned. DL has A fares with fbcs such as HUP..., QUP..., etc. and these (at least before SkyMiles processing moved to the NW backend) posted correctly as the A fares that they were.
I must not be average. I read the details line, saw "HR00UPRQ", and thought 1.0x.
DL has had some rather obvious and glaring IT freebies for years, they're just now finally getting closed off.
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator (1.0x, coach seat, etc).
DL has had some rather obvious and glaring IT freebies for years, they're just now finally getting closed off.
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator (1.0x, coach seat, etc).
For those with CRS access here's another experiment: long sell a segment in A class in a market where you know there is an applicable HUP... fare basis code and A is available; then price the itin and see what happens. Now long sell a segment in H and price it and see what happens.
And also ponder why AA and UA happily give away this "IT freebie" with their discounted first class fares...
Dec 17, 2009, 11:16 am
#68
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I must not be average. I read the details line, saw "HR00UPRQ", and thought 1.0x.
DL has had some rather obvious and glaring IT freebies for years, they're just now finally getting closed off.
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator (1.0x, coach seat, etc).
DL has had some rather obvious and glaring IT freebies for years, they're just now finally getting closed off.
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator (1.0x, coach seat, etc).
And this has nothing to do with Freebies, DL has not changes the mileage acrual terms on its site.
DLP
Dec 17, 2009, 11:22 am
#69
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It's a possibility the way things are working now. What is the fare basis code of your tickets? The fact that it's an I fare does not necessarily mean that it is a fare basis code beginning with I.
Dec 17, 2009, 12:42 pm
#70
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I'm looking at my recent e-mailed receipts from DL.com. I see Booking Class - A, Seat/Cabin - First. The fare basis, cryptically was in the Fare Details section - HA00UPRJ.
I think to the lay person, they booked in A and flew in F.
On my last DL-metal flight (12/13) I definitely got the extra 50% MQM benefit. On the way back I will be on NW-metal. I'll let you know how it goes.
-=tg=-
I think to the lay person, they booked in A and flew in F.
On my last DL-metal flight (12/13) I definitely got the extra 50% MQM benefit. On the way back I will be on NW-metal. I'll let you know how it goes.
-=tg=-
Dec 17, 2009, 2:23 pm
#71
Join Date: May 2009
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I had the same problem at the end of 08 on a NW flight. Booked F on the web site and ended up with 1x MQMs. Was told the flight was booked H and upgraded and therefore not eligible.
As it did not affect my status (was already gold), I didn't push it.
If you want to contact someone that can correct the problem , send the details to [email protected]. Kevin understands SkyMiles better than anyone at Delta and can make the proper changes.
As it did not affect my status (was already gold), I didn't push it.
If you want to contact someone that can correct the problem , send the details to [email protected]. Kevin understands SkyMiles better than anyone at Delta and can make the proper changes.
Dec 17, 2009, 3:05 pm
#72
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Let's face it... it's a hodge-podge, and it's their game, and their rules. So whatever we get is what we get. The rest is just interpreting the rules. Figure the best you can do is file a DOT complaint or litigate, because threatening to take your business elsewhere will just make them laugh.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I guess I'm just so used to DL's way of pricing and posting, that I just always buy at the bottom, and redeem at the top. When push comes to shove, the CSRs and back-ends are going to treat anything besides an F/P as Coach, and anything besides M/B/Y/F/P as 1.0x, which can get really painful and confusing during these discussions, and during ir-ops.
I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, I guess I'm just trying to interpret the logic the CSRs are using to refuse your request.
Dec 17, 2009, 4:11 pm
#73
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So in the end all of this becomes a moot point for me.
In the process of reviewing my mileage statements to see if this had happened to me before I stumbled upon two missing segments that never hit the account. I submitted the credit requests this morning and the miles and MQM's hit the account a few minutes ago.
I'm actually sitting in the ATL A Sky Club about to take the flight that will - after getting the credit for these missing segments - push me over to DM for next year.
So in the end all I'm out is about $300 in extra fare and some serious frustration. That's not anywhere near enough to get me to waste time fighting with SMS. The extra diamond perks would have been worth going after them for, but I'm certainly not crazy enough to try and squeeze $300 out of the DL stone.
It will be interesting to hear if this continues and how people + DL are going to handle it. I think it really needs to be addressed by somebody as it's clear that many here, as well as ALL of the reservation reps I talked to, thought it was a deceptive practice. Now that I'm crossing over the DM line I just don't have a dog in the fight anymore.
Cheers,
OPos.
In the process of reviewing my mileage statements to see if this had happened to me before I stumbled upon two missing segments that never hit the account. I submitted the credit requests this morning and the miles and MQM's hit the account a few minutes ago.
I'm actually sitting in the ATL A Sky Club about to take the flight that will - after getting the credit for these missing segments - push me over to DM for next year.
So in the end all I'm out is about $300 in extra fare and some serious frustration. That's not anywhere near enough to get me to waste time fighting with SMS. The extra diamond perks would have been worth going after them for, but I'm certainly not crazy enough to try and squeeze $300 out of the DL stone.
It will be interesting to hear if this continues and how people + DL are going to handle it. I think it really needs to be addressed by somebody as it's clear that many here, as well as ALL of the reservation reps I talked to, thought it was a deceptive practice. Now that I'm crossing over the DM line I just don't have a dog in the fight anymore.
Cheers,
OPos.
Dec 17, 2009, 4:28 pm
#74
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Not denying that the features of WP were very, very good.
I however, would disagree with the thought that SM compared to all other airline FFP's sucks. It's NOT "best in class" however.
As for the "can do" service, I haven't had the best of luck with Chisholm agents being empowered to make things right after IROPS because there was an AA codeshare on the ticket.
I however, would disagree with the thought that SM compared to all other airline FFP's sucks. It's NOT "best in class" however.
As for the "can do" service, I haven't had the best of luck with Chisholm agents being empowered to make things right after IROPS because there was an AA codeshare on the ticket.
Originally Posted by sbagdon;13006339
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator ([I
Personally, if I want to be in a certain class-of-service, I darned well make sure that that class-of-service appears on my receipt. Anything except F is free, and can be taken away. If the fare basis isn't F, be willing to accept worse-case denominator ([I
1.0x, coach seat, etc[/I]).
Dec 17, 2009, 5:20 pm
#75
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SRQ
Programs: Delta Diamond since inception
Posts: 179
This happend to me last month - I bought my wife and daughter the "cheap" first class tickets and myself a super duper cheap coach ticket. When I wasn't upgraded with 2 days to departure I called and swapped my ticket to first class tickets which were still very cheap like ~$350. My MQM credited 1x not 1.5x - after about 5 emails to Delta they finally credited me 1.5x. I just passed to DM last week and did the same trip again with my family and was credited 1x again - I guess I will start emailing again..
Seems like a weird policy - their initial arguement was that I was upgraded to first but I asked why would I buy a more expesive ticket two days prior to departure when I already had a ticket that would be upgraded unless I wanted a guarantee of first class...frustrating
Seems like a weird policy - their initial arguement was that I was upgraded to first but I asked why would I buy a more expesive ticket two days prior to departure when I already had a ticket that would be upgraded unless I wanted a guarantee of first class...frustrating