alhcfp

please explain what makes Virtuoso agent better then the rest?

alhcfp

Questions for the TAs:

What expertise does a TA posses that is not available from reading cruise critic?

On average, how many cruises does a TA go on per year?

Wouldn't the large on-line agencies have more clout then a home based agent?

Although agencies have cruise line reps, doesn't every client want an upgrade etc? And can you help with this?

don't the large online agencies have more group space which they offer as low price?

If the agent offers no OBC or other incentive, does booking with the agent keep client from calling cruise line direct to solve "little things"..cabin change , dining time, etc?

I am not being argumentative. I have asked these questions a few times, and never get a reply.

THANKS

pricesquire

I'll bite. [Full disclosure: I'm a Virtuoso agent.]

1) Virtuoso is built on interpersonal relationships between agent and supplier. A "booking" goes way beyond typing in code into GDS. For me, it's literally personal. I'm not being hyperbolic - I'm serious. When someone books a hotel through me, for example, I'll either email or call the General Manager of the hotel. Why? Because I've met the GM of almost every hotel in the Virtuoso network, and want to let he or she know I have a client headed their way. Not only do I maximize perks for the client [that upgrade on availability may move to an upgrade on arrival] - but I keep an ongoing relationship with the hotel. The same works for cruises, safaris, cars, insurance, etc.

2) This one is a little more basic. Virtuoso has the best network of preferred suppliers on the market. I truly believe in our vendors and our product, and any good Virtuoso agent would feel the same way. When you (1) know what you're selling, and (2) love what you're selling, it's a really, really good combo for the consumer. Even when I'm traveling personally, and going to a hotel/cruise incognito [they don't know I'm a Virtuoso agent - essentially, I'm mystery shopping] - I still stick to our network.

3) Numer 2 aside, I'm willing to book a non-Virtuoso product if I feel like that product is better than the comparative Virtuoso product. Example: we have one hotel in Charleston South Carolina. I don't like that hotel. Therefore, I book other [non-Virtuoso] hotels. I love my product, but I'm not blindly loyal.

4) Virtuoso agents - oftentimes - get the inside track on information. Another bit of anecdotal evidence: I just got a client $500 extra in resort credits at Miraval in Arizona [a destination spa] despite that offer not being public for another 1 month. I've also gotten numerous perks for clients on cruises on offers that, quite simply, weren't publicly available.

5) I've seen how storefront travel agents work. There are some very good ones out there. Very, very good. But, more often than not, I think storefront agents are too focused on the financial aspect of travel and are too obsessed with getting bottom line pricing. Don't get me wrong - pricing is really important! But sometimes deals come in all shapes and sizes. To some people, getting a best available rate + hundreds of dollars in additional perks is more of a "deal" than getting best available rate minus a few bucks. It all depends. Furthermore, storefront agents just aren't linked into some of these great networks [like Virtuoso, even Signature Network or AMEX].

The list goes on. The above applies to any good Virtuoso agent, not just me. If you've had bad luck with a previous agent, find a new one and give it a shot!

Best,

Ben

pricesquire

I'll bite - again Just saw this post.

-Cruise critic is a website. An agent is a live person. You literally have someone working for you - think of them as an employee - to make your trip the best it can be.

-Some agents go on a LOT of cruises a year. I met one the other week who cruises once, sometimes twice a month. Sometimes knowledge is more than knowing stats of individual cruise ships. Sometimes it's where the best restaurant is at a port of call. Or, the ability to get a driver upon landing. Or to arrange on-sites that the cruise doesn't offer. Again, it's a value-add.

-On some ships, yea, Expedia is going to have more clout than a storefront agent. On the other hand, a Virtuoso advisor is going to have more clout on a preferred partner ship [ever look into Voyager Club? Where the Virtuoso advisor is the literal host of the ship?] Amawaterways, for example, is going to listen to a Virtuoso advisor before it listens to Expedia. Same w/ almost any preferred partner.

-I'm only speaking to Virtuoso advisors, but no, not every client asks for an upgrade. A lot of clients book the cabin they want instead of gambling w/ upgrades. Others don't, and yea, they ask about upgrades.

I'm not ignoring your last two questions, I'm just not sure I understand them enough to give an adequate reply.

alhcfp

Appreciate your response Ben. Lets keep playing.

I will be offline for a week starting Sat. in case you respond and I don't.

"I've met the GM of almost every hotel in the Virtuoso network" How many hotels is this? are you claiming to know every GM in every chain?

When you say "MET" was this a handshake line or a meaningful conversation?

How does this translate to cruises and cars.

Does Virtuoso target a specific market or is everyone your client?

THANKS

pricesquire

I met 88 vendors/GMs/suppliers per day for 5 days. We had three tables (our agency), so that's 1,320 meetings over the course of a week.

Each meeting is no longer than 4 minutes, but you'd be surprised what happens in 4 minutes. Furthermore, if you want a longer meeting, you meet over breakfast, lunch, dinner, or one of the numerous breaks provided.

I am not suggesting I know every GM of every chain. I am not suggesting I am buddy-buddy with all of them. What I am suggesting is that once you've met someone, and have their cell phone, and personal email address, and access to someone beyond front desk/reservations, things change a little.

I am suggesting I have personal relationships (we email regarding non-business things, we've talked on the phone, I've sent people to their property, they've sent me gifts....etc) with the people I meet at Travel Week.

You'd be surprised how much of a 'reunion feel' Vegas has that week.

The travel industry is very much a you scratch my back I scratch your back situation. So, when I send someone to a hotel/tour/safari, there is a level of recognition between vendor and myself that goes way beyond someone calling the front desk of a random hotel and asking for something.

When I book a reservation, I work directly with the GM or their assistant. There is no calling of a front desk for me and wishing for the best.

This is a direct quote from a General Manager - I got this email this morning after sending a guest their way. I won't tell you the name of the hotel/GM (for obvious reasons):

Thanks, Ben!

That’s outstanding.
Can you send us their name or confirmation number so we can VIP and flag their reservation?

Is there an amenity that you would like to send on your behalf to the guests?

Another OWNER (not GM) email I got this week:

Hello Ben
So lovely to hear from you
We are thrilled Ms XXXX will be with us .
XXXX is a wonderful resting retreat with spa and treatments galore.
But there are also lots of Historic Houses, museums, antiquing and on & on. Edith Whartons home is just a mile & a half walk with beautiful gardens.
Our Lodging Manager will call you in the morning to go over specifics
Thank you again and again


How does this translate into cruises and cars?

Same thing. We meet car vendors (everything from Avis/Enterprise to AutoEurope - my personal favorite - will match any rate, anywhere with amazing customer service).

Met the CEO of Silversea and met cruise company reps from AmaWaterways, Crystal, Royal Caribbean, Viking, and plenty more. Per usual, I have their personal contact info, which is great for bypassing a 1-800 number!

Virtuoso's main market is luxury/leisure. That being said, I have clients where I regularly book them $79 dollar a night hotel rooms and have never taken anything but Carnival. I also have clients who regularly drop $30k for 2 on a safari, and who rent out a French barge cruise for $50k a week.

As an advisor, I deal with people regardless of budget. After all, I can't afford a $30k safari or a $50k cruise

Kagehitokiri

i recently learned that there is an agent on flyertalk that passes on (part of) commission to clients. when cruiseline does a ~20% commission promotional offer (to encourage agents to sell) that could be quite a lot of money. in cash.

virtuoso etc are about referral spend. some providers may complain about some the clients they get from virtuoso etc. but overall clients for overall providers, they like the amount of revenue they get from virtuoso etc. that means there is a mutually beneficial relationship.

a single agency / agent that sends hundreds of thousands of dollars or even up to tens of millions of dollars (whole cruise ship charters, in 2011 silversea onboard management told me $3mm/week although i had seen much lower figures for silversea prior to that) to a single provider per year is going to receive very different treatment from the average agency / agent / person.

some people are expert negotiators. they still may use agent for some specific benefit/relationship/etc. other people want their agent to negotiate for them, and some agents do negotiate a lot and are expert negotiators themselves. some people, whether they have found a good agent or not, want to simply rely on agent to handle absolutely everything. good agents are capable of doing so, so client doesnt have to.

there are only 1,030 virtuoso hotels. but it does seem surprising to me that so many GMs attend travel week, maybe not as high a percentage from the top hotels though. virtuoso website lists 30 "cruiselines" not sure if they all offer benefits to virtuoso clients.

http://www.virtuoso.com/ they have new website which is pretty good - agent directory is voluntary not a complete list
https://virtuosomeetings.virtuoso.com/ re virtuoso event(s) being described, similar to industry-wide and other consortia

anyone can afford to spend whatever is in their bank account.

pricesquire

Every year, there is a new group of people who completely sell out an entire Silversea/Seabourn cruise. Happened again this year. That's not urban legend..that actually happens.

As I said earlier, even on single 1 night/1 room bookings, this industry is entirely you scratch my back, I scratch yours.

Which is why, to me at least, the whole "is a travel agent worth it" or "are TAs of value" is borderline laughable.

Even if all you care about is the bottom line (cheapest price), they can still offer value from these 1 to 1 face to face relationships. If you don't think management and/or the person going through the nightly roster doesn't see someone was booked via a live person, you're wrong. Not to mention, who wouldn't want a free concierge working on your behalf for all your travel needs? Seems ridiculous it would be any other way, really.

Furthermore, it's no secret that vendors (cruises, hotels, air) aren't happy with OTAs (AA just pulled its flight info from Orbitz for the 2nd time in 4 years)....hotels are complaining that OTA operating costs are too high...vendors prefer dealing with live people.

Re: GM participation in Travel Week: you'd be surprised, but the more expensive/more well known hotels send their GMs in person. The less known hotels, or less popular, send their Directors of Industry Sales. So, yea, over 50% of the people you meet at Travel Week are owners or GMs.

Re: cruises. If they are a preferred partner of Virtuoso, they'll offer benefits.

Kagehitokiri

i think you misinterpreted my post?

specifically re cruises, i said virtuoso lists 30 companies. do all 30 offer benefits?

there can be many reasons to use a TA, and many reasons not to use one. those using bad TAs who do nothing as an example does not prove anything regarding potential value of TAs. but its also possible for some to accomplish same/similar without TA. anything is possible.

providers are happy with OTAs that provide more revenue than problems. there are OTAs that operate similarly to virtuoso/etc.

if im paying thousands of dollars a night at amanresorts, i want GM there, not meeting a bunch of travel agents, only a few (if any) of whom will ever send a lot of client/spend. GMs have a job. its to run their property. now, giant chain companies (including four seasons, which also focuses on hiring of all employees) dont use GMs the same way smaller independents/companies do, and it may be low season, but the idea remains.

pricesquire

I don't think I misinterpreted your most...too much, at least

Wondering if a cruise offers Virtuoso benefits? Just go to V's home page: www.virtuoso.com

Then click on Plan A Trip

Then click on Cruises

Each cruise will have a section regarding benefits.

In addition to the stated benefits, your TA may be able to get you additional benefits (as you pointed out: some TAs really know how to negotiate!).

I agree (goes without saying) that not all TAs are worth it. I also agree not every booking "needs" a TA.

In my mind, TAs are needed for:

1) Cruises of Royal Caribbean or higher caliber
2) 4-5+ star hotels
3) Transfers/cars (you'd be amazed at what a TA can get you on a simple Avis booking)
4) Travel Insurance (really helps to have someone explain your rights and liabilities and to clarify what's included/not included) - albeit once you're well-versed in this process, you don't need a TA here
5) Safari
6) On-sites/tour/guides* (hugely important!!! Can't even begin to explain!)
7) Luxury rail

The more complex the itinerary, the more useful a TA will be

DO NOT need a TA for air, albeit they can be oddly helpful when it comes to biz/first international flights

Kagehitokiri

i was saying everything you said basically, your reply seemed to suggest you thought i disagreed

im not clicking on all 30 cruiselines, virtuoso used to have a short list of cruiselines under this program http://www.virtuoso.com/why-virtuoso...s/voyager-club

not all DMCs are B2B only, and some DMCs, including virtuoso ones (virtuoso name "onsite") are actually (virtuoso) agencies themselves

there is a huge difference between value and "needed" - your prior posts focused on potential (not guaranteed) value well, with good examples

pricesquire

My bad. Didn't mean to suggest anything. Sometimes these threads get so long, and questions and answers get jumbled up and confusing. Sorry for that.

I'm confused on this one point, though: are you saying Virtuoso on-sites are also agencies themselves?

Also, Re: cruises...for each one of those 30 lines, benefits can differ greatly between ships, sailings, dates, whether it's Voyager Club hosted, etc...just depends

Kagehitokiri

"some DMCs, including virtuoso ones" but i did not say "all virtuoso ones"

"DMC" = destination management company

sounds like they expanded cruise partners beyond voyager club, sometimes with 'less' benefits

doesnt really matter, was just clarifying that we were both providing similar info about TAs

pricesquire

I've yet to meet a single DMC/on-site that was also a Virtuoso agent. It may be that's the case, but yea...never come across one.

Voyager Club sailings come with the most benefits of the bunch.

"Exclusive benefit" sailings come with the next most benefits...then "Special benefits"...and so forth.

Obviously your bennies will be less on a Royal Caribbean compared to a Silversea, but you never know.

And yes, we clearly agree on TA benefits..to the point we're probably going in circles

Kagehitokiri

in my 8 years here i have come across a lot of information.

an agent who became a DMC. fairly straightforward - why wouldnt a provider want to be both if they could, to capture both revenue sources.