i got into the miles game because the cashback cards have monthly minimum spend, which i often cannot meet. the banks subseqently implement a cap on the amount of cashback per catergory which makes them even more unattractive to me. i have since moved to the US and the cashback cards here do not have these requirements, so i am thinking that they maybe better than rewards cards.

by and large, i think you can find a card that nets 5% cashback, while you are likely looking at 3 miles for a rewards card. i know there are cards with higher earning power, but they also likely charge higher annual fees, thereby offsetting the higher earning power. comparing 5% to 3 miles, you are essentially trading $0.0167 for each mile. this number is higher than the valuation of most miles i see posted online.

Sure, you can get outsized value for miles, but cashback would be far easier. no need to keep track of your miles, full flexibility when buying tickets, no risk of expiry and devaluation. im undecided on this and would like to hear some thoughts. thank you

I have recently been pondering the same question, and came out on the side of miles. Which cards have you found that net 5% cashback? The only (U.S.) cards of which I am aware are either restricted to certain purchase categories or relatively low spending limits, or both. One could potentially get several different cards to maximize the number of categories earning 5%, but this would require a lot of coordination and work involving rotating quarterly categories -- ie, not simple at all �and I don�t think even then you could achieve 5% across the board.

I think it really depends on the categories, your typical redemptions, and net expenses. What categories are your weak spots?

I have a setup with Amex Plat for flights (personal or company), AA Citi Exec for hotels on company dime, Chase preferred for personal hotels, rentals and dining (also has a 10% anniversary bonus), freedom flex for gas (Gas quarter) and general-use gift cards (Paypal quarter), Walmart Capital One card for Walmart groceries (pairs well with Amex Walmart+) and Chase Freedom Unlimited for the rest. I will eventually get the C1 Venture X (2%) to replace what freedom unlimited does now (1.5%) and allow me to transfer the Walmart card points to miles.

Valuing Amex MRs, Chase URs, C1 miles and AA miles at 1.5c, I'm getting at least a 7.5% on flights, 30%+ on hotels, 4.95% on dining, 7.5% on gas, 7.5% on groceries. The Vanilla gift cards also help with these miscellaneous expenses upto $1.5k per flex card that you have, buying them with Paypal at CVS effectively gives you 10.37% cashback on anything factoring in the $5.95 purchase fee per $500 gift card. Outside these, there's a floor of the C1 2 miles = 3% on pretty much everything else, except rent, where a Bilt Rewards can get you 1 mile or 1.5% back. There's also Citi Custom Cash for 5% on niche stuff to earn ThankYou points upto a limit. The annual fees of the above pay for themselves independent of the cashback with the other perks (at least the ones that actually matter to me, not the Peloton or Saks credit).

In every category except for dining, I don't think there's a cashback card that does better. Some folks value Amex, Chase and C1 points at 2c. Then there's the whole idea of churning which beats all of the above.

there is this reddit thread Reddit - Dive into anything

my current setup has 0 annual fees. the cashback cards im talking about generally have 0 AF. just amex, citi exec and venture x alone is 1,685 in AF. im not a big enough spender to justify that. i know you get other benefits with those cards as well, but they are generally not for me, defintely not enough to justify the AF.

also correct me if im wrong, but credit card points are valued more than actual airline because of flexibility, so i would compare against the value of airline miles, which are usually lower. but i agree that you can technically get more value of out miles. the issue here is flexibility and convenience. i cant put a value of that, but sometimes it certainly feels like the additional value i may get doesnt commensurate with my time and effort.

I was trying to say that the annual fees for me pays for itself without considering the cashback portion of the cards, so all those cards are effectively zero AF cards for me. But this may not be the case for you unless you normally spend on Club membership, Hulu, $600-ish on travel, Walmart+, etc.

Very fair point about time and effort and this is subjective from person to person. Cashback cards are definitely easier mentally, and cash is the ultimate flexibility compared to points or miles. I was merely trying to give you a datapoint on how the math works out for me since I only take AA in the form of miles and the rest are points.

That being said, I don't think my setup is scalable because right now, the points/miles I earn is roughly equal to my burn rate for travel. AA miles from hotel spend and UA miles from flight spend are exclusively used to cover flights for my family. The other bank points are used for hotels. Beyond this, I'd probably be looking at pure cashback due to the flexibility of cash for non-flight and non-hotel expenses.

If you have the time and are willing to put in the effort I'd look at it from a top down perspective on how much you burn on personal flights and hotels, and play the miles/points game just enough to subsidize that. Cashback for the rest.

I don't see a card on any of those lists that will result in net of 5% cashback, nor even a combination of cards that would result in a net of 5% back on all spend -- only in certain categories. I'm not arguing those are better or worse than miles-earning cards overall, just observing that hypothesizing a net return of 5% cash back seems a bit far-fetched for purposes of your comparison.

yeah i think i didnt phrase myself properly. i mean definitely depends on person to person. but for me it certainly feels harder to get award tickets nowadays and the flights, at least those im looking at, are getting cheaper. the incentive is getting quite small to warrant the effort for me

i dont mean a net 5% cashback for every catergory, but you can find 5% for most high spending catergories like grocery, dining, travel.

If you use -- or could use -- mobile-wallet payments, you might consider the US Bank Altitude Reserve card. It earns travel credit of 4.5% on all mobile-wallet purchases, and on all "travel" purchases. Do not be put off by the annual fee of $400: it is illusory. The first $325 of travel or dining charged to the card every membership year is automatically rebated. And many cardmembers have reported generous annual retention offers. That's in addition to the rotating cash-back offers from retailers, and the eight annual Priority Pass lounge or restaurant visits per year. (US Bank Priority Pass membership still includes the restaurant visits.)

Do "nets 5% cash back" cards actually exist? Ditto for 3 transferable miles per dollar cards.

apologies for the confusing language. i dont mean a card that gives a net of 5% cashback or 3 mpd on total purchase. i meant it like for each major catergory, you can likely find a 5% card.

Get the card you want from above.

Me, I like $$ back, airline miles and free hotel stays.

I do Discover 5% moving 1/4ly categories, zero cost. A Fidelity Card, 2% on everything, zero cost. Costco card...3% on travel...cheap gas and rebates...discount food...cost varies with category. . Hotel cards, pay homeowers insurance to meet minimum, get 3-8 night free, get one annual night free...cost 75-125/yr, less that the one night...only use for hotel nights. Airline cards, again pay large bills to meet minimum, get 40,000 to more than double those miles points...most give 1st year free...you figure that our, other benefits.

You got my interest! Now, the big question for me is, what is considered "travel"? For example, when I have purchased intercity bus tickets with the Chase Sapphire card in Brazil and did not get the usual double points for travel. Yet, at home I do get the double points on local commuter fare. In Thailand I got only single points on GRAB (ride share) but double points on BOLT, another ride share app, same as I would get on Uber.
My biggest expenses when traveling in South America is AirBnB and Uber. That's about 40% of my daily expense (lodging and transport). I use those two for lodging and transport 90% of the time in South America. In Southeast Asia, lodging was almost exclusively Booking.com and rideshare apps. So, you can imagine how their inclusion would be of paramount importance.
Anybody have experience with this card and can comment on any caveats? Thanks.

It's probably more restrictive than you would like. Courtesy of bankrate.com:

"What counts as travel for U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve?

"Purchases directly from merchants that classify themselves as travel fall within this category, including airlines, hotels, car rentals, taxicabs, limousines, passenger trains and cruise line companies as travel. If you�re unsure if a purchase is considered travel, call U.S. Bank customer service."

(Emphasis added.)

Note, however, that all mobile-wallet purchases count. So even if tapping your card for a subway ride in NYC would not get you triple points, paying for the ride with Apple Pay or Google Pay on your phone would.

https://frequentmiler.com/us-bank-re...t-works-where/

There's a difference between what charges earn three points per dollar, and what charges trigger Real Time Rewards redemptions. I can earn three points per dollar on the Washington Metro if I pay using mobile wallet, even though that transaction will not trigger a Real Time Rewards redemption. Same as with paying with mobile wallet at a supermarket, drug store, or McDonald's. The triple points earned through such purchases can then be redeemed with Real Time Rewards the next time I make a "travel" purchase which triggers a Real Time Rewards redemption offer.