Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jun 26, 2014 | 11:21 am
#631
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
I suggest the smarter thing to do would be to create a downloadable fax template link onto the wiki so that anyone could use it to semi-automate the process.
The reason why majority of the people don't bother doing it is because what you stated: "it's only few cents and I have to bother with them on the phone for 30 minutes." I admire the principle of your not giving in, but let's face it, most people aren't going to spend 30 minutes on the phone with a clueless CSR who doesn't understand jack about DCC to resolve 10 cents.
Since you're a Millennial as myself, I'm hoping that you'd understand the natural vibe we all have in our generation: "there is always a better, more efficient way to do this using technology at hand today."
It is a futile attempt to convince people to dispute 10 cents or whatever on the phone for 30 minutes. Some people are extroverts, some are introverts.
The next best thing to do then, is to make it easier to file a DCC dispute so we don't have to deal with irritated customers behind us through the language barrier or wasting our time on the phone with CSRs. And that can be done by semi-automating it with a downloadable fax template (I suggest Google Docs as I did) and post a link to the wiki, so that all it takes is less than a minute of filling in that sheet and faxing it in to your bank (suggest internet fax like faxzero or whatever), more people will start doing it.
And the stack of faxes start piling up at the banks so they also start to visually see what a problem this is. Make it easier to file a DCC dispute for us, let the banks deal with the problem. We shouldn't be put into the position of dealing with the hassle of speaking to a clueless CSR in the first place.
Before creating a template, we need to what fields should be placed into that template:
1. Your name
2. Your address
3. Your account number
4. Date of transaction
5. Where transaction took place
6. Amount in dispute
7. scanned/smartphone camera copy of receipt
8. anything else?
A list of customer service fax numbers to big name banks which majority of the people tend to use (BofA, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc.) would also help.
The reason why majority of the people don't bother doing it is because what you stated: "it's only few cents and I have to bother with them on the phone for 30 minutes." I admire the principle of your not giving in, but let's face it, most people aren't going to spend 30 minutes on the phone with a clueless CSR who doesn't understand jack about DCC to resolve 10 cents.
Since you're a Millennial as myself, I'm hoping that you'd understand the natural vibe we all have in our generation: "there is always a better, more efficient way to do this using technology at hand today."
It is a futile attempt to convince people to dispute 10 cents or whatever on the phone for 30 minutes. Some people are extroverts, some are introverts.
The next best thing to do then, is to make it easier to file a DCC dispute so we don't have to deal with irritated customers behind us through the language barrier or wasting our time on the phone with CSRs. And that can be done by semi-automating it with a downloadable fax template (I suggest Google Docs as I did) and post a link to the wiki, so that all it takes is less than a minute of filling in that sheet and faxing it in to your bank (suggest internet fax like faxzero or whatever), more people will start doing it.
And the stack of faxes start piling up at the banks so they also start to visually see what a problem this is. Make it easier to file a DCC dispute for us, let the banks deal with the problem. We shouldn't be put into the position of dealing with the hassle of speaking to a clueless CSR in the first place.
Before creating a template, we need to what fields should be placed into that template:
1. Your name
2. Your address
3. Your account number
4. Date of transaction
5. Where transaction took place
6. Amount in dispute
7. scanned/smartphone camera copy of receipt
8. anything else?
A list of customer service fax numbers to big name banks which majority of the people tend to use (BofA, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc.) would also help.
Jun 26, 2014 | 11:54 am
#632
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
I'd love to help out, but unfortunately, I don't have experience in filing a DCC complaint so I wouldn't know what relevant fields are necessary to file a complaint. Hence my questions whether those 8 fields are enough or if I missed anything else that might be relevant.
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant).
But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today.
Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so
So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet.
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant).
But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today.
Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so
So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet.
Jun 26, 2014 | 1:18 pm
#633
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
I'd love to help out, but unfortunately, I don't have experience in filing a DCC complaint so I wouldn't know what relevant fields are necessary to file a complaint. Hence my questions whether those 8 fields are enough or if I missed anything else that might be relevant.
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant).
But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today.
Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so
So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet.
As it stands today, the DCC scam for me is that I probably have been DCCed in the past in places like India or Europe, but that was over 3-4 years ago, I wasn't aware of this DCC scam back then, and the receipts have been shredded long ago and it's probably in a landfill somewhere by now. Had I known about this DCC scam way back then, I would've complained and gained the experience to help you guys out on creating an easier template (and know what info is relevant).
But my travel patterns has changed since 3-4 years ago. Most of my travels now are mainly to Japan which fortunately, do not use DCC (apart from Amazon Japan which I can avoid easily by not clicking on choosing to be charged in USD) so I don't really experience these DCC issues today.
Bluntly, I haven't been DCCed in recent times yet (most likely have been DCCed in the past which I didn't pay much attention to back then) and therefore haven't filed any dispute about it, therefore I have no experience in filing a dispute or what info is relevant to do so
So I'd think those who frequent here where the issue seems to be happening more in Europe and mainland China, I'm sure they'll understand the hassles of filing a DCC dispute better than I do, so they have a better idea of what info fields are relevant versus someone like me who hasn't been DCCed or ever filed a dispute yet.
Example
My native country is Russia and therefore I don't tend to get dcced or else I could easily tell people to 're charge me if ever I had that issue there You have to remember that most low level store clerks tend to believe that they are doing a customer a "favor" by billing people directly in their home currency for "convenience" sake with little regard for the bad conversion rate
Last edited by rgAAFT; Jun 26, 2014 at 1:27 pm
Jun 26, 2014 | 1:22 pm
#634
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Saw non-compliant DCC today as Isaac's Hostel in Dublin. Not too bad as the choice was in the cardholder's hands (and expecting worse I'd already asked for Euro when inserting my card). Instead of asking me to choose an amount it said:
Amount
US Dollar $24.xx (I forgot the exact amount)
No / Yes
Thus it didn't present a choice of currency it instead asked if the amount was okay. Which doesn't imply a choice. Hitting no put it through in euro with a DCC-free signature slip and final slip.
Not too awful but easy to slip up since it isn't an active choice.
Amount
US Dollar $24.xx (I forgot the exact amount)
No / Yes
Thus it didn't present a choice of currency it instead asked if the amount was okay. Which doesn't imply a choice. Hitting no put it through in euro with a DCC-free signature slip and final slip.
Not too awful but easy to slip up since it isn't an active choice.
Last edited by AllieKat; Jun 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Jun 26, 2014 | 1:25 pm
#635
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Likewise, I haven't been forcibly hit with DCC since I became aware of it a few years ago. I haven't yet filed a dispute with Chase because the one time I got hit with DCC at the Frankfurt Marriott in March 2013, I complained to the hotel's general manager who compensated a more valuable amount of Marriott Rewards points. I wasn't as vigilant then - you could call me DCC naive - and I thought DCC was opt-in or at the very least something where the merchant gave a transparent choice.
The only other time I got hit with DCC was July 2011 at the Venetian Macau. Again, I wasn't aware enough to know I had been hit, and it was a live and learn situation. I didn't think I had recourse at the time. If the same thing were to happen to me today I would deface the receipt and dispute the charge. I am proactive about specifying local currency up front, and not buying the lies of "Oh, that rate is just for your convenience." or thinking that the check box will be respected in China, Macau, or Hong Kong. (If you see the check box there, you've been screwed already.)
I think we can help each other out by editing the wiki with country-specific information and advice on how to disable DCC on various payment terminals.
The only other time I got hit with DCC was July 2011 at the Venetian Macau. Again, I wasn't aware enough to know I had been hit, and it was a live and learn situation. I didn't think I had recourse at the time. If the same thing were to happen to me today I would deface the receipt and dispute the charge. I am proactive about specifying local currency up front, and not buying the lies of "Oh, that rate is just for your convenience." or thinking that the check box will be respected in China, Macau, or Hong Kong. (If you see the check box there, you've been screwed already.)
I think we can help each other out by editing the wiki with country-specific information and advice on how to disable DCC on various payment terminals.
Jun 26, 2014 | 1:44 pm
#636
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
And the only website that I come across where Japanese acquirers provide DCC is for online businesses (which the example screenshot looks a lot like Amazon Japan)
http://www.globalpayment.co.jp/service/service_d.php
For the most part, I think as of today, DCC doesn't happen in Japan unless one buys from Amazon Japan. And at least Amazon Japan gives you an option to choose to pay in JPY or home currency, so that's avoidable.
Of course I could be wrong and maybe American anime fans visiting Akihabara and splurging on otaku related items are getting ripped off by DCC scams.
But so far, this thread has shown examples mainly occuring in Europe and mainland China. Does anyone have a Japanese credit card receipt showing DCC in action in Japan? That would spark my interest in myself as well to be on the lookout when I go there.
Last edited by kebosabi; Jun 26, 2014 at 1:54 pm
Jun 26, 2014 | 2:10 pm
#637
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,944
Of course I could be wrong and maybe American anime fans visiting Akihabara and splurging on otaku related items are getting ripped off by DCC scams.
But so far, this thread has shown examples mainly occuring in Europe and mainland China. Does anyone have a Japanese credit card receipt showing DCC in action in Japan? That would spark my interest in myself as well to be on the lookout when I go there.
But so far, this thread has shown examples mainly occuring in Europe and mainland China. Does anyone have a Japanese credit card receipt showing DCC in action in Japan? That would spark my interest in myself as well to be on the lookout when I go there.
Jun 26, 2014 | 2:46 pm
#638
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
As an additional side point, if one can read Japanese, even that Japanese acquirer for online businesses that I posted above doesn't really state any benefit to merchants; it only says "it'll be a service to your customers who would like to see the amount in their home currency without currency fluctuations. By providing this service, foreigners will more likely shop at your place than your competitors!"
Nothing about "businesses earn additional revenue from conversion fees" is noted in that Japanese acquirer website, which is what other countries' acquirers use to market pitch DCCs to merchants. (i.e. FirstData's DCC sales pitch to US merchants)
Either Japanese online business acquirers are trying to pocket the difference by collecting the currency fees for themselves or, Japanese online business acquirers themselves don't know what DCC is yet or haven't really looked into what it really does to market it that way to benefit Japanese merchants.
The American skeptic in me would say the former. Yet the Japanese in me wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter. I'd even say this as an American of Japanese descent - the Japanese people are really bad at marketing. They make great products, they suck at marketing.
Last edited by kebosabi; Jun 26, 2014 at 2:55 pm
Jun 26, 2014 | 4:17 pm
#639
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I think that the prevalence of JCB makes DCC not worthwhile in Japan. Furthermore, Japan is a by-the-book culture, so you know that DCC would always be presented as a choice if it were enabled. For instance, I remember a cashier at a department store explaining the return policy to me - I had to go get one of my Japanese classmates to translate - because the department store policy was to inform customers. It was obvious that I didn't understand. How many other places in the world would a cashier bother to do something like that?
Jun 26, 2014 | 5:45 pm
#640
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I bank with Schwab because they are generally awesome (though OT, they have attempted to send my new debit card TWICE to my Nanning office via USPS, in spite of my advice to the contrary; FedEx is now in the works).
I brought the issue at hand to THEIR attention shortly after I left the hotel because I knew that DCC was in the works.
Schwab asked me to wait 3 days until the charge posted. I did, it was 3.1% higher than what had been initially approved, and I contested it.
I brought the issue at hand to THEIR attention shortly after I left the hotel because I knew that DCC was in the works.
Schwab asked me to wait 3 days until the charge posted. I did, it was 3.1% higher than what had been initially approved, and I contested it.
上海交通大学, not a language school (would ICBC even agree to do that with a language school? Supposedly it was that studying at a big name school guarantees a certain measure of future income so they agreed to it). I did fine for the first couple years but engineering classes in Chinese were too much for me do I ended up returning to the US.
Actually the 语言学院 I mentioned isn't some sort of local language school. It is quite famous now. It is located in 五道口 in Beijing, Haidian. It's like that the area with a 10-mile radius from the 语言学院 is a special economic zone, because the school is so popular among international students.
Jun 26, 2014 | 5:47 pm
#641
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
If that were the reason, then mainland China wouldn't do so with the prevalence of Union Pay cards.
This would be likely the case.
But I doubt as in any other country, the cashier would be trained and understand that it'll cost more to charge in home currency than in JPY. So by the book they will explain it, but probably to only お客様、日本円とドル、決済はどちらがいいでしょうか？ (Sir, madam, would you like to be charged in JPY or USD?) and will offer a choice, but that's about it. They'll not go into the detail about DCC which they have no understanding of.
But I doubt as in any other country, the cashier would be trained and understand that it'll cost more to charge in home currency than in JPY. So by the book they will explain it, but probably to only お客様、日本円とドル、決済はどちらがいいでしょうか？ (Sir, madam, would you like to be charged in JPY or USD?) and will offer a choice, but that's about it. They'll not go into the detail about DCC which they have no understanding of.
Jun 26, 2014 | 6:34 pm
#642
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,325
Yes. The amount in dispute has been credited back to me (for now). I was actually planning on staying at the GTA-Sea World again next week, but they have ignored my reservation request, so I fear that I've been written off as an annoying customer.
Jun 26, 2014 | 7:59 pm
#643
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
But I doubt as in any other country, the cashier would be trained and understand that it'll cost more to charge in home currency than in JPY. So by the book they will explain it, but probably to only お客様、日本円とドル、決済はどちらがいいでしょうか？ (Sir, madam, would you like to be charged in JPY or USD?) and will offer a choice, but that's about it. They'll not go into the detail about DCC which they have no understanding of.
Jun 26, 2014 | 8:24 pm
#644
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Does Schwab made a charge back or they simply refunded you the difference?
Jun 26, 2014 | 8:29 pm
#645
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Back then China had 涉外酒店. Now it has been relaxed.