Yes, it is DCC because you were not billed in the local currency, but is was a DCC in your favor. So, you're lucky.

Unsurprisingly, Caffe Nero did not respond to my complaint and they've had over 48 hours. They won't be seeing my money, not when they engage in that type of deception while claiming to be "ethical"

Paypal forces DCC for all non-US transactions with overseas currency?
 

Subj?

Wanted to make payment via paypal linked credit card. I see the option to send transaction to the credit card with the original currency is gone.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sd6p96brwn9e0gn/paypal.jpg

Anyone else have seen similar issues?

Has anyone experienced DCC cases that would be in the consumer's favor? I thought DCC always adds a minimum 3% to the exchange rate, sometime more.

It is not DCCed at billing time because if it is a "TRUE" conversion, even without the extra 3%, it would have been HIGHER than what is billed. It is not DCCed at reservation time because I checked the quote in Euro versus the final display of USD, there is less than 0.01% difference versus using the mean rate of the day. One can conclude that is just a rounding error. I dont think billing in USD automatically means DCC. You have to look at the actual exchange rates to determine if there is any padding. There is NONE.

If you read my post more carefully - at the time of reservation I used EURO for the quote (which the user has control) then it reverted to USD on the final page.

Per the mean rate of the day of reservation, it was clear to me there was no additional padding in the conversion.

If it is billed in USD, it just simply adheres to the Contracted Price which has been a straight conversion from Euro to USD, again, no additional % added.

The USD amount shown on the reservation is the same amount being billed on my card, regardless how much it was in Euro - if it is billed in Euro then even with the Mastercard conversion rate of either the transaction or the post date, would have been HIGHER than the contracted USD price.

So how can that be the conventional DCC as we discuss here? Where is the 3% extra?

In other words, it was NOT DCCed at reservation - it simply changed the display from Euro to USD used the market rate at the time of booking. I double-checked it with several sites at that time. The difference is less than 0.01%. At billing, the SAME USD amount was billed, NO CONVERSION BACK TO EURO THEN DCCed TO USD. So how can one claim if it is not in local currency, it is DCCed, and you just got lucky that is in your favor?

By default, whenever there is a DCC, it would NEVER in the customer's favor. If so, this thread would not exist! Nor people are advocating to file a dispute!

On top of that, The D stands for Dynamic - if the USD amount is constant even it is 5 days apart, or actually 8 days apart - between reservation to actually shown on our CC - How Dynamic that could be? There is No Dynamic at all! In fact there is not even a currency conversion done at the billing. The currency conversion has ALREADY been done at reservation, at a market rate without adding any extra %.

Isn't it a bit too simplistic to call anything not billed in local currency is being DCCed? when there is neither Dynamic nor currency conversion because it seems regardless how much Euro it was, it did NOT affect the amount being billed.

I cannot see a clear cut case of DCC simply because it is not in local currency based on the chain of events as at each step, there was NO padding whatsoever. In fact, the USD became the governing currency that the local currency revolved to. The local currency seemed to become totally irrelevant as it has fluctuated between reservation and pick up (163 versus 159), yet the final invoice is the same USD at reservation and at billing.

Again, if you actually read thru the whole scenario, you would see the amount shown in local currency changed but the amount shown in USD was a constant. Now how can we say it is DCCed when the variable is in the Local Currency? Plus the fact that when it was converted from Euro quote to show a USD price on the confirmation, the conversion was a straight conversion without any added %, short of 0.01% difference.

While I do not understand what the mechanism Avis used in this particular reservation, I am fairly confident to say, there has not been DCCed in the sense as we know it despite the currency is changed to USD from a Euro quote, and the final billing also is shown in USD.

It's rare, but it is possible. For instance, when the Swiss Franc appreciated rapidly recently, choosing DCC to lock in the exchange rate would have saved money had the customer selected DCC right before the appreciation. One of the "advantages" of DCC is that the customer can lock in the exchange rate. Even if the DCC rate is 3-5%, if the local currency appreciates more than this between the transaction date and the posting date, then the customer will have come out ahead by choosing DCC. In practice, this is unlikely to happen between two currencies in developed countries with stable currencies.

I have yet to see a case with my transactions where DCC was offered where I would have come out ahead by selecting DCC.

There are still financial institutions in some countries which only apply FTFs to transactions in foreign currencies. If your DCC surcharge is 3% and your own bank's surcharge is 3% and they don't add theirs in the case of DCC, it's a close call.

This is becoming more and more rare, not only as financial institutions add FTFs to home-currency transactions, but as DCCers regularly bump up their fees to 5% these days.

In fact, if both are 3% you might be inclined to accept DCC since the total transaction amount would look like a purchase, inclusive of DCC. In the case of a currency conversion, the bank would only apply rewards earned to the base purchase amount. The currency exchange fee would be separate. If for instance you spend $1000 on a hotel overseas, that would be an additional $30 worth of rewards eligible spending if you accept DCC.

I think part of the reason why banks switched from currency exchange fees to foreign transaction fees was because of DCC. In the US, I think cards have switched over primarily to FTFs, so if you used a 3% FTF card and accepted DCC you would be looking at a transaction cost 5-8% higher than if you had used a 0% FTF card and avoided DCC.

I am afraid the point I am trying to make across is totally lost due to the very strange situation.

The fact remains, the rate was quoted in Euro (or any currency the customer chose on the Vehicle Selection screen), the final confirmation once customer selected the vehicle, defaults to the currency of customer's residence. In this case, the USD. It seems to be a conversion based on the market rate at the time you submit the Select. Because I immediately went to XC site to check the exchange rate and found only 0.01% difference using the mean rate.

The even more puzzling thing is, there is NO chance for me to select anything, other than make sure the box of DCC in the Avis Preferred is UNCHECKED (Avis defaulted it to checked, but gave very clear disclosure about adding 3%). At return, the usual clause of conversion to USD that normally would be there as a disclosure, was not on the invoice which was in Euro.

And then it showed up on my CC in USD. Not only that, it is the IDENTICAL amount as the reservation confirmation.

So if there is any DCC ever done, it was at the time of reservation, AND more importantly, NO additional % added. Card used is 0% FOREX anyway.

People often gripe about Avis being the worst among all rental car companies in that they automatically DCC you on foreign rental. In this particular incidence, the DCC if it is ever done, is NOT the traditional way as we know it, NOR it has the rip-off 3% added.

I do believe the billing practice varies by country - as in both South Africa and Turkey, they were billed in local currency. But then the card used was an AMEX Plat, so by nature, there would not be any DCC.

The reservation of the South Africa rental was in USD on confirmation, the Quote in ZAR never matches what the rental agreement showed but closed enough that I did not bother to ask for itemized breakdown.

The reservation of the Turkey rental was also in USD on confirmation but that was tossed out because at pick up the system jacked up the final cost A LOT. Luckily we had a very honest agent who said, "You have a reservation with a confirmed price, we need to honor that." Then he proceeded to search the system to eventually find us a rate that was slightly less than the original booking, using Turkish airlines special. For that we were very grateful especially comparing the rogue agent of the same station the night before.

Both the above were billed in local currencies at the time. I haven't bothered to check what exchange rates AMEX used - which I am sure is not the best rates but trivial enough that do not warrant more work.

Just a strange situation that I thought might be worthwhile to inform the community as I am sure some of you might use an Avis when you travel internationally.

Very rare indeed. AFAIK, all the US-based card issuers changed their wordings to Foreign Transaction versus Foreign Currency, a few years ago. Citi and Chase languages are very clear - any transaction done outside US regardless the currency is used. Then there are further definition on "transaction", meaning the billing from the merchant. Because of that, I always use a forex free card to make redemption on BA Avios to avoid any unpleasant surprise.

In fact my neighbor bought an Aer Lingus ticket that had a JetBlue leg, on JetBlue website and was in USD - she got charged the 3% Forex fee because the billing was done outside US. She actually had a card that was FOREX free but she used another card to pay thinking it was in USD and got hosed.

It's also similarly likely (unlikely) to occur in the opposite direction (not in any way contradicting your point, of course).

The likelihood of a currency appreciating so significantly against your home currency that it retrospectively makes DCC a good deal is very small indeed. Over time, using DCC will quickly cost more than the (very) occasional 'win' that might come about because of exchange rates changing rapidly an substantially. Far better to stick with the basic rule that DCC is bad for consumers.

Can doing frequent chargebacks to correct DCC make the card issuer cancel your card? I have a new card and trying to build credit history, and wouldn't want to damage the relationship with my bank.

I have not seen any reports of cancelled cards due to DCC related chargebacks.

So would you just use your card normally and file several chargeback every day? Would that get you into trouble?

Shanghai is really that bad where one cannot avoid DCC? :D

If the bank accepts the chargeback and gets the bill in the proper currency, why not? If you frequent the same establishments, perhaps it will get them to fix their terminals. Chargebacks costs businesses time and money in the form of paperwork, and I seek to file one each and every time I get forced with DCC.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...l#post25040149

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