Program bugs??? Money losing bugs!!!

I think maybe Schwab uses the posted USD amount to determine the local amount. Because ATMs can only disperse amounts in at least tens, Schwab can then use this to determine the original local amount and figure out the USD equivalent of the fee. This is the way I can think of.

If this is true, I'm interested to see what would happen if foreign ATM transactions are DCCed. With a ATM transaction of XX.XX USD, will Schwab just reimburse X.XX or (X.XX - 5) (if X.XX is greater than 5) back to you???

Significant Capital One FTF advantage
 

Hello,

So over the years, I have been monitoring currency conversion. I think we all look for no explicit FTF (issuer added) as a good sign, but I still felt that there were differences I couldn't explain. Even with the Euro at a significant discount to previous years, Capital One appears to continue to even waive the Visa or MC part of the rate (not sure if this is official).

Here is one example of the tale of two charges both from the same merchant made on the same day (and posted, two days later at the same day).

258 Euro charge, charged to Chase Marriott Signature Visa (no FTF except the Visa fee), posted on 3/23 - 280.75 USD (1.0881 USD to EUR - matches Visa website exactly).

198 Euro charge, charged to Capital One QS WE MasterCard (no FTF including MC fee), posted on 3/23 - 211.01 USD (1.0657 USD to EUR - seems like more than a 2.6% savings compared to the listed MC rate). The Visa rate by the way slightly better than the MasterCard website listed rate which indicates to me that Visa did more volume that settlement day than MasterCard and was able to get a better rate.

So, when we are chasing a few percent of cash back or equivalent, why wouldn't we be considering the actual exchange rates more often for our preferred card of choice overseas? That seems to more than offset the slightly lower rebate value of Capital One's consumer cards. I admit that it is hard to manage to that level of detail, but in general, if Capital One is removing the full exchange rate overhead, that seems to be as close to being a major international banker as one can get.

I am lucky to have a few issuers I can test including BofA (historic FIA card with no FTF), Barclay (newer no FTF policy) and the aforementioned cards. However, I don't use them like this very often in international rotation.

Rasheed

Good points. Most of my trips are business trips. While I am not going to get my employer ripped off through DCC, I am also looking at maximizing my cash back. So while Amex Costco charges me 3% FTF, it gives me 3% only on US restaurants and travel. So I plan to use my Sams Master card which is 3% travel worldwide even though they do charge 3% FTF. My Capital one QS is fee free and no FTF. But that is a subprime card company where they are stingy with credit limits. Even though my balance is close to 6 figures in the checking/savings, my credit limit is only $12.5k which renders the card useless to my household spending limits. I thus prefer my $45k UNFCU Visa or $35k Sams Master Card or even $25 Amex Costco. If my QS had at least $25k limit, I would have happily used it. So my QS is generally locked up and used occasionally for small personal expenses overseas. A good thing about the card for US usage is that like UNFCU card it is also on Apple pay.

Is your limits on QS liberal enough for your usage?

Does the published Visa rate encapsulate the 1% fee? I thought they had to separate it and that the Marriott card was truly 0%, but I could be mistaken. Is it also always the case that CapitalOne uses an effective rate lower than MC's published rate? If you don't accept DCC, I don't know how the rate would be different than the published rate, but you do bring up a good point about being able to compare the rates between Visa and MasterCard when deciding which card to use.

Mine was worse at $2000. This was also in the days before FlyerTalk (and associated churning and manufactured spending) for me when my credit was impeccable. However, in the 3 years I had that card they never granted me a credit limit increase. Once Chase and AmEx Platinum started to offer 0% FTF as a feature, I promptly dropped the card. I'm a little worried about the switchover from Costco AmEx to Capital One. We'll see if things transfer in kind.

I'm pretty sure Chase Marriott is truly 0%.

Visa website rates don't include the 1%, and Chase rates always match the Visa rate. Chase don't charge its 2% and eats the Visa's 1%. If Chase charges FTF, it's gonna be a single charge which includes both (as the ones on my old and deceased Chase Freedom card).

Everybody please correct me if I'm wrong.

My guess is that Capital One's posting date rates were different from the ones that OP thought were the actual posting rates. Maybe if we find another time when currency fluctuation isn't huge, we can see Capital One rates matching MC rates?

My experience with Chase MC IHG card is that it always uses the MC rates. It's a true 0% as well. If OP's Capital One card is the true 0% and mines aren't, we would see 1% in saving instead of 2.6%, right?

AirAsia DCC
 

I'm pretty sure I got hit with DCC last night booking tickets online with AirAsia (on a Citibank, no FTF MasterCard).

I tried to pay in Indonesian Rupiah at the payment screen; the total amount was 4,780,000 IDR, equivalent to US$368.12. First attempt denied. On the phone with Citibank I was told that their fraud department was NOT blocking the charge; they weren't showing an authorization request coming in on their side at all. While still on the phone, I tried again, and once again was denied.

On the payment page I changed the currency to US dollars and was quoted $386.61, an higher price of $18.49, and almost exactly 5% higher.

The charge in US dollars was approved on the same card.

At no point did any DCC verbiage stating that I had a right to choose currencies, and paying in my home currency would result in a 5% convenience charge show up. Just "this is the price in dollars."

My receipt, however, shows that I paid 4,780,000 IDR under the "total paid" section. (And this is AFTER paying a 200,000 IDR / US$15.40 processing fee for using a credit card!)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/...afe6af64bd.jpg

My question is, does this qualify as DCC or just a merchant selling one item at different prices across different currencies?

vegascraig:

1. One one hand Indonesian merchants cannot charge anything but IDR by virtue of Indonesian law http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...on-61.html#904

2. OTOH Thai Airasia charges out of Malaysian headquarters http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...w.php?id=11968 (the Airasia charge was for Thai Airasia), so maybe Airasia Indonesia charges out of Malaysia as well?

I would say this is currency conversion, not dynamic.

Air New Zealand website can do the same thing. But it didn't stop me from actually paying in NZD. And of course paying in USD resulted more if the price was originally quoted in NZD.

Basically your product is quoted in one base currency, and every other currency will include a conversion loss sort of thing.

In this case AirAsia's system was having a problem and it self-denied IDR transactions. I had the same problem with Air China that the CNY transactions were denied on Chase cards. The difference is that Chase saw authorizations, but it wasn't Chase who denied them. Air China's system just though there was something wrong and stopped the transactions after successful authorizations.

Is an exchange rate listed on your credit card's statement or does it look like a 'native' USD purchase?

The charge listed on my online banking appears to be a native USD purchase (just as the other two times I got forced into DCC at B&M merchants).

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/...dGraphic-2.png

This is the exact amount offered by AirAsia at purchase, and even shown on another copy of an invoice I was emailed. This was not the exchange rate used by Citibank or MasterCard, it was AirAsia's arbitrary amount in USD (5% higher than the true exchange rate). I just tried to recreate this purchase on their website, and purchases in IDR and MYR were the same price, but USD, AUD and EUR purchases all had a 5% markup.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/...230c4cd2f1.jpg

Also, on my booking screen, I can see the three transactions (card number redacted but all on the same card), the two declined in IDR and the one approved in USD:
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/...dce422473b.png

Thank you all for your opinions and advice. I only wish the IDR transactions would have gone through. I guess I won't complain too much about the extra $18 though; it's still nice to be able to get lie-flat business class seats on a 6 hour flight for less than US$200 each:cool:

Pending is always in native currency - this is true for almost all banks' cards I have - AMEX, Citi, Chase, Barclays and BofA. However once transactions are POSTED, you can then click on the line and open up the description where you will see the foreign currency. Some banks wouldn't show it until statement. I dont remember the nuisance of each bank.

You would need to wait till posted transaction or statement close, in order to see the foreign currency billed. Only when no foreign currency showing after the transaction POSTED, that you could claim it is a DCC.

As soon as it posts I'll post it here. You're right, I've never seen a transaction still pending with an exchange rate posted. However, I have a feeling it will be this exact amount as a native USD transaction though, considering the amount listed on my receipt in USD and the amount of the pending charge in USD is exactly the same, and nowhere the real exchange rate.

If it turns out to be DCC you could still try to file a Reason Code 4846 chargeback with Citibank. You could claim that you were not given the option of paying in local currency (notice that the IDR charges were 'declined'), that they did not disclose the exchange rate, and that they did not advertise they were applying their own non-MasterCard exchange rate.

A lot of airlines have multi-currency charging systems. I doubt the bank would give anything back if it were the cardholder who selected the currency.

It's no different than a paper receipt where the merchant selects for you (against your wishes). The only disadvantage here is that you can't completely deface the receipt stating that a local option wasn't offered.