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-   -   Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-2014-2016-a.html)

tmiw Mar 23, 2015 1:16 am


Originally Posted by BruceyBonus (Post 24550236)
And many places have minimum spends too. My local Indian takeaway is £10 minimum, plus a £1 fee. No good if I'm eating on my own. Local butcher has the same minimum spend, but with a 50p fee.

Then you get pubs who make up odd rules. One in Islington (near King's Cross station) would only take cards for purchases under £5 if they were contactless :confused:

Is that true for UK debit cards as well? I know in the US they're not supposed to have minimums for debit but some places do it anyway.

AllieKat Mar 23, 2015 1:26 am


Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 (Post 24549926)
and many of the ones that do accept card there charge £.5/£1 for doing so (easily 10-20% of an order too), so the preferred payment method there is also cash.

That's what I meant by cash is still king - an exorbitant credit card fee is the same as not accepting cards, as far as I'm concerned. Worse, actually.


Originally Posted by BruceyBonus (Post 24550236)
And many places have minimum spends too. My local Indian takeaway is £10 minimum, plus a £1 fee. No good if I'm eating on my own. Local butcher has the same minimum spend, but with a 50p fee.

Then you get pubs who make up odd rules. One in Islington (near King's Cross station) would only take cards for purchases under £5 if they were contactless :confused:

It's sad that merchants see credit card fees as a way of raising profit. One place near my charges a US $1 fee on all card transactions. Their typical transaction is a couple of dollars. The fee is massively out of proportion to their cost of acceptance in all these cases. A 20p/25 cent fee? I'd almost feel for the merchant and say "well, they are covering a cost they perceive because they're too short-sighted to see the benefit" but 50 cents... 50p... $1... £1... $2 (yes I've seen it)... outrageous. I'll buy from cash-only businesses, but I try to avoid businesses profiting off of card fees.

The contactless only for under £5? That I'm okay with. They're saving money (contactless incentives... if they existed in the US it might be a different landscape...), and in general, as most British cards have contactless, they're only asking you to please tap instead of insert to save them money.


Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR (Post 24549908)
Do bear in mind that one of the lies clerks are instructed to tell people who notice that the dcc scam is being perpetrated on them is to tell them the amount listed in your currency is just an estimate for your convenience and that you are really being billed in whatever the local currency is. Of course when I come back and say then why am I being asked to sign a statement that I agree to the conversion rate and the decision is final, they quickly shut up.

I have seen this actually be true once. My final receipt, after choosing to pay in Euro on the PIN pad, at the Flying Pig Uptown Amsterdam last summer, had the DCC verbiage on it complete with the final decision statement. They assured me it was only for reference, and as I KNOW what I picked on the PIN pad I decided to leave it be. Sure enough, the transaction was charged correctly in Euro.

BruceyBonus Mar 23, 2015 1:42 am


Originally Posted by tmiw (Post 24550244)
Is that true for UK debit cards as well? I know in the US they're not supposed to have minimums for debit but some places do it anyway.

Yes. Generally all shops that charge will have a blanket policy regardless of the type of card. Some stores (e.g. Aldi and Lidl) previously only accepted debit cards, although they now take credit cards too.

Things are different on the internet or paying government departments (e.g. DVLA for paying vehicle excise duty) where there tend to be no surcharge for debit cards but 2% usually on credit cards.

zyxlsy Mar 23, 2015 7:14 am


Originally Posted by Happy (Post 24544662)
Schwab did not show the $4 being charged though.

Schwab never shows ATM fees separately.

It's always combined into one transaction.

However Schwab is always able to detect how much fee there is in one combined transaction (not exact on the cent, but more or less). So no worries.

Majuki Mar 23, 2015 8:40 am


Originally Posted by AllieKat (Post 24550263)
I have seen this actually be true once. My final receipt, after choosing to pay in Euro on the PIN pad, at the Flying Pig Uptown Amsterdam last summer, had the DCC verbiage on it complete with the final decision statement. They assured me it was only for reference, and as I KNOW what I picked on the PIN pad I decided to leave it be. Sure enough, the transaction was charged correctly in Euro.

I've seen the DCC verbiage before too after choosing in Taiwan:

http://i.imgur.com/ppGxW9om.jpg

The transactions always post correctly in Taiwan Dollars, but one should look out for the following:
  1. Making the currency selection yourself
  2. If the receipt is thermal, making sure it's denominated in local currency
  3. If the receipt is carbon copy with check boxes, asking for courtesy copy/reprint to show currency choice was respected

In the case of most receipts in Taiwan the receipt is thermal and will either say SALE without the DCC verbiage or SALE OPT_O with the DCC verbiage. Both should list the local currency amount. If the receipt only lists your card's currency amount or mentions FX rates, I'd approach the situation cautiously.

AllieKat Mar 23, 2015 8:45 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 24551556)
I've seen the DCC verbiage before too after choosing in Taiwan:

http://i.imgur.com/ppGxW9om.jpg

The transactions always post correctly in Taiwan Dollars, but one should look out for the following:
  1. Making the currency selection yourself
  2. If the receipt is thermal, making sure it's denominated in local currency
  3. If the receipt is carbon copy with check boxes, asking for courtesy copy/reprint to show currency choice was respected

In the case of most receipts in Taiwan the receipt is thermal and will either say SALE without the DCC verbiage or SALE OPT_O with the DCC verbiage. Both should list the local currency amount. If the receipt only lists your card's currency amount or mentions FX rates, I'd approach the situation cautiously.

THAT is what's unique about this one, it was a thermal receipt, AFTER currency selection with the DCC amount as the total. Sure enough, it truly was informational only...

Majuki Mar 23, 2015 8:50 am


Originally Posted by AllieKat (Post 24551575)
THAT is what's unique about this one, it was a thermal receipt, AFTER currency selection with the DCC amount as the total. Sure enough, it truly was informational only...

Even though the customer makes the currency selection, I still wouldn't have trusted the receipt the transaction only showed my card's currency with the DCC verbiage. There would be little recourse in the case where DCC was actually imposed.

AllieKat Mar 23, 2015 8:54 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 24551603)
Even though the customer makes the currency selection, I still wouldn't have trusted the receipt the transaction only showed my card's currency with the DCC verbiage. There would be little recourse in the case where DCC was actually imposed.

To clarify, the slip I signed was in EUR and only EUR. The slip that printed as MY copy was in USD.

Happy Mar 23, 2015 10:08 am


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 24551162)
Schwab never shows ATM fees separately.

It's always combined into one transaction.

However Schwab is always able to detect how much fee there is in one combined transaction (not exact on the cent, but more or less). So no worries.

That is not true in my experiences in the past. I did see separate ATM fee listed a couple years ago. I did not see separate ATM fee listed last year for withdrawal made in ICN, however as you said, Schwab was able to ferret it out and reimburse it at end of month.

However on this particular Turkey withdrawal, the converted USD does not seem to include the $4 ATM fee because the exchange rate used is as close to the historical rate as within 0.02% at USD 1 = 2.6 TY. $4 on a 100 TY withdrawal would amount to 10% increase in exchange rate calculation, but it is not the rate used. Hence I believe the $4 is not included in the $ amount shown withdrew.

Happy Mar 23, 2015 10:13 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 24547006)
If you could provide the transaction and posting dates of your two ATM withdrawals, we could see what rate was applied and compared to Visa's exchange rate calculator.

Here are what shown on Schwab site, each was for 100 TY.

03/11/2015 ATM BODRUM CARSI SUBE 2 MUGLA $38.49

03/06/2015 ATM TURKIYE IS BANK ISBANK/ ADANA $39.06

On XC site the historical rate for 3/06 was much lower than the Visa rate which was exactly 3% higher than XC shown.

I definitely think the 3/11 withdrawal does not include the $4 ATM fee.

One withdrawal of 1000 South Africa Rand in Feb.

02/19/2015 ATM ABSA O.R TAMBO *O.R TAM KEMPTON PARK $86.37

Majuki Mar 23, 2015 3:21 pm


Originally Posted by Happy (Post 24552060)
Here are what shown on Schwab site, each was for 100 TY.

03/11/2015 ATM BODRUM CARSI SUBE 2 MUGLA $38.49

03/06/2015 ATM TURKIYE IS BANK ISBANK/ ADANA $39.06

On XC site the historical rate for 3/06 was much lower than the Visa rate which was exactly 3% higher than XC shown.

I definitely think the 3/11 withdrawal does not include the $4 ATM fee.

One withdrawal of 1000 South Africa Rand in Feb.

02/19/2015 ATM ABSA O.R TAMBO *O.R TAM KEMPTON PARK $86.37

These three amounts all match Visa's rate exactly for the dates listed. I can't explain why the XC rate was 3% lower than Visa's. Usually the two rates are within 0.5% of each other.

upnorth Mar 23, 2015 8:37 pm

Last December when I checked out of the Marriott hotel in Jaipur India, I got these boxes. I checked the one with INR. But on my statement I saw they deceptively did a DCC and gave me a poor conversion rate.


Originally Posted by AllieKat (Post 24551575)
THAT is what's unique about this one, it was a thermal receipt, AFTER currency selection with the DCC amount as the total. Sure enough, it truly was informational only...


AllieKat Mar 23, 2015 9:08 pm


Originally Posted by upnorth (Post 24554949)
Last December when I checked out of the Marriott hotel in Jaipur India, I got these boxes. I checked the one with INR. But on my statement I saw they deceptively did a DCC and gave me a poor conversion rate.

That's very common, unfortunately.

zyxlsy Mar 23, 2015 11:13 pm


Originally Posted by Happy (Post 24552029)
That is not true in my experiences in the past. I did see separate ATM fee listed a couple years ago. I did not see separate ATM fee listed last year for withdrawal made in ICN, however as you said, Schwab was able to ferret it out and reimburse it at end of month.

However on this particular Turkey withdrawal, the converted USD does not seem to include the $4 ATM fee because the exchange rate used is as close to the historical rate as within 0.02% at USD 1 = 2.6 TY. $4 on a 100 TY withdrawal would amount to 10% increase in exchange rate calculation, but it is not the rate used. Hence I believe the $4 is not included in the $ amount shown withdrew.

I have been using Schwab for only a year so I admit I can't say for years back. But I believe included or not is determined by the specific ATMs. It's them who decide whether the fees are included in the transaction or run as separate ones.

All my withdraws last year in Australia, New Zealand, Korea, USA, Vietnam, and China include the fees in the transactions themselves.

If you don't see the ATM fee listed separately, it's quite weird since I don't think the ATM would give up the fee itself... Sometimes postings on Debit Cards can be delayed for days (my Australia Tax Refund took a week to post).

Happy Mar 24, 2015 8:05 am


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 24555436)
I have been using Schwab for only a year so I admit I can't say for years back. But I believe included or not is determined by the specific ATMs. It's them who decide whether the fees are included in the transaction or run as separate ones.

All my withdraws last year in Australia, New Zealand, Korea, USA, Vietnam, and China include the fees in the transactions themselves.

If you don't see the ATM fee listed separately, it's quite weird since I don't think the ATM would give up the fee itself... Sometimes postings on Debit Cards can be delayed for days (my Australia Tax Refund took a week to post).

I agree whether the fee is separately billed depends on ATM as I have seen the separately billed ATM fees before - both on Schwab's and on Fido's.

Last year on the receipts from ATM at ICN and BKK, the ATM fees were shown in details but of course the withdrawals were net amounts. All fees were reimburded.

On this particular withdrawal in Turkey the ATM receipt only showed the amount withdrew, 100 TY, nothing else. It has been almost 2 weeks from the withdrawal, no additional item shows up at Schwab's site. It does seem weird because the machine clearly display $4 ATM fee and asked if I wanted to accept it to continue.


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