CDC pre-departure lawsuit cases updates?
May 2, 2022, 1:24 pm
#31
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It's not so much logic as it is legal restrictions. The federal government has some authority to restrict movements internationally, but interstate movement is mostly protected. It'd be up to individual airlines to impose a pre departure test to board, and then there's IDB rules etc., otherwise individual states can only impose a limited quarantine on arrival.
You're stating this as if some central medical authority decided it was best to test international arrivals and not domestic flights and therefore is a hypocrite or nonsensical. In practice this authority may have wanted both but could only secure one.
You're stating this as if some central medical authority decided it was best to test international arrivals and not domestic flights and therefore is a hypocrite or nonsensical. In practice this authority may have wanted both but could only secure one.
May 2, 2022, 4:59 pm
#32
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False negatives are certainly far more likely with these tests than false positives. So, restricting those with a Covid positive result is part of the solution even if not the complete solution. “Don’t ask, don’t tell” (i.e., not requiring a test) does not seem to be a good alternative policy for handling a pandemic.
A possible position is whether Covid infection should be treated as a serious communicable disease that should be prevented from infecting others or just ignored as similar to common cold. This is certainly more defensible than a denial of entry argument. Hopefully that becomes the state at some point but I don’t think we are there yet given lack of information on long covid consequences, the mutatability of the virus, etc.
A possible position is whether Covid infection should be treated as a serious communicable disease that should be prevented from infecting others or just ignored as similar to common cold. This is certainly more defensible than a denial of entry argument. Hopefully that becomes the state at some point but I don’t think we are there yet given lack of information on long covid consequences, the mutatability of the virus, etc.
But as I said, the issue is that while (to offer an example) CDG-JFK is test-required, CDG-YUL [and then drive to NYC] is not. So is CDG-MEX-TIJ [and then walk across the border]. So it's a pointless policy that can be worked around quickly in a pinch.
May 3, 2022, 12:24 am
#33
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Can you help clarify the logic for us on the required testing for international inbound flights while domestically the US has hundreds of thousands if not millions of cases circulating at all times? And then tie long covid into the story for us - how this testing is helping address long covid risks.
I'm always fascinated by bureaucracy trying to accomplish goals in completely nonsensical fashion.
I'm always fascinated by bureaucracy trying to accomplish goals in completely nonsensical fashion.
Long covid is a different issue. It is a thorn in the position that we should just let Covid wash over the population and get over it or treat it just like common cold. The unknowns around long Covid suggests that subjecting people to that as a policy may be premature.
May 3, 2022, 12:26 am
#34
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It might be worth looking into symptom-screening and if someone is showing symptoms, force them through a rapid test [[i]that the airline is responsible for overseeing]. Really, the main problem is that nobody is "actually" in charge on doing the testing.
But as I said, the issue is that while (to offer an example) CDG-JFK is test-required, CDG-YUL [and then drive to NYC] is not. So is CDG-MEX-TIJ [and then [i]walk across the border]. So it's a pointless policy that can be worked around quickly in a pinch.
But as I said, the issue is that while (to offer an example) CDG-JFK is test-required, CDG-YUL [and then drive to NYC] is not. So is CDG-MEX-TIJ [and then [i]walk across the border]. So it's a pointless policy that can be worked around quickly in a pinch.
May 3, 2022, 12:44 pm
#35
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The comment arguably does as phrased. A better point would be that the combination of a lack of a testing requirement to enter Canada or Mexico plus the lack of a requirement to enter the US by land makes defeating the test-to-fly requirement quite easy.
[The fact that the requirement applies to a YUL-JFK flight but not a JFK-HNL flight also makes the logic somewhat suspect except as, at best, a "target of opportunity".]
Edit: Also, just to be a prat, but swimming across the St. Lawrence River, while legally fraught, is definitely doable in places by a good swimmer with a wetsuit in the right weather who doesn't mind "landing" a bit downstream from where they started. There are definitely places this doesn't apply, but also places where it would.
[The fact that the requirement applies to a YUL-JFK flight but not a JFK-HNL flight also makes the logic somewhat suspect except as, at best, a "target of opportunity".]
Edit: Also, just to be a prat, but swimming across the St. Lawrence River, while legally fraught, is definitely doable in places by a good swimmer with a wetsuit in the right weather who doesn't mind "landing" a bit downstream from where they started. There are definitely places this doesn't apply, but also places where it would.
It's not so much logic as it is legal restrictions. The federal government has some authority to restrict movements internationally, but interstate movement is mostly protected. It'd be up to individual airlines to impose a pre departure test to board, and then there's IDB rules etc., otherwise individual states can only impose a limited quarantine on arrival.
You're stating this as if some central medical authority decided it was best to test international arrivals and not domestic flights and therefore is a hypocrite or nonsensical. In practice this authority may have wanted both but could only secure one.
You're stating this as if some central medical authority decided it was best to test international arrivals and not domestic flights and therefore is a hypocrite or nonsensical. In practice this authority may have wanted both but could only secure one.
There is no single solution to prevent Covid spread. US policy contains a certain set of mitigating procedures. Individual countries do not necessarily follow the same set of mitigating policies, some better, some are a lot worse. It is impractical to specify and enforce requirements on specific countries so it is universally applied.
Long covid is a different issue. It is a thorn in the position that we should just let Covid wash over the population and get over it or treat it just like common cold. The unknowns around long Covid suggests that subjecting people to that as a policy may be premature.
Long covid is a different issue. It is a thorn in the position that we should just let Covid wash over the population and get over it or treat it just like common cold. The unknowns around long Covid suggests that subjecting people to that as a policy may be premature.
May 3, 2022, 2:31 pm
#36
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The pre-departure covid test for US entry needs to be lifted
This rule seems to be orphaned. Is there any pathway to having this lifted? The fact that most all other nations have lifted this requirement should signal similar action of the United States. Also, there is a huge inconsistency that a border crossing does not create a covid test requirement, yet an air entry does. Who is championing the removal of this requirement?
May 3, 2022, 5:02 pm
#37
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This rule seems to be orphaned. Is there any pathway to having this lifted? The fact that most all other nations have lifted this requirement should signal similar action of the United States. Also, there is a huge inconsistency that a border crossing does not create a covid test requirement, yet an air entry does. Who is championing the removal of this requirement?
Haven't seen any news or updates on it, anyone?
May 3, 2022, 5:31 pm
#38
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This rule seems to be orphaned. Is there any pathway to having this lifted? The fact that most all other nations have lifted this requirement should signal similar action of the United States. Also, there is a huge inconsistency that a border crossing does not create a covid test requirement, yet an air entry does. Who is championing the removal of this requirement?
May 3, 2022, 6:04 pm
#39
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Let’s not kid ourselves and think the CDC would have ever given up that authority, if not ordered by the judge.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; May 15, 2022 at 4:36 am Reason: Redacted OMNI comment
May 3, 2022, 7:57 pm
#40
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Hopefully not that this stupid rule is going to be in effect for ages like “remove your shoe” rule .. where is the judge who will take the cake away from CDC on testing requirements ?
May 3, 2022, 9:58 pm
#41
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The testing is more insidious; not even NZ, Australia, Singapore, countries that I thought were particularly harsh in 2020-2021, subjugate their own citizens to this antediluvian rule today.
May 4, 2022, 6:44 am
#42
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PS - Vaccine Makers - want to sell more? Update your vaccine for future and current strains. Omi is so rear view mirror stuff.
May 4, 2022, 7:27 am
#43
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I think that between Monday's leaked SC doc, the ongoing Ukraine crisis, and inflation into the ionosphere, I don't see Biden's gov inclined to move on this or even give it much priority. I'm betting we'll be testing for the foreseeable future (though would love to be wrong on this account).
May 4, 2022, 7:56 am
#44
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Well here's one update from Lucas Wall's case, mentioned upthread:
https://floridapolitics.com/archives...mask-mandates/
This judge ruled in favor of Uncle Sam wrt both the testing requirement and mask mandate. A couple of things I noted
Which is fair enough - at very beginning of the pandemic or other emergent situation. But after time has passed, the government should be required to go through the normal rulemaking process to retain an emergency rule for an extended period of time. That may or may not bring about a different outcome in the rule, but at the very least the standard process should be adhered to in the long run.
I could've sworn there were a couple of state AG lawsuits involving the testing requirement. But I must be remembering wrong as I can't find anything. There are/were state suits about the mask mandate. I was hoping state AGs would have a better chance at success than the DIYers in the case above.
https://floridapolitics.com/archives...mask-mandates/
This judge ruled in favor of Uncle Sam wrt both the testing requirement and mask mandate. A couple of things I noted
[Judge Byron] also noted that the law gives the Surgeon General authority to skip some rulemaking steps — something that Wall objected to in his complaint — when there is good cause for urgent public health actions.
I could've sworn there were a couple of state AG lawsuits involving the testing requirement. But I must be remembering wrong as I can't find anything. There are/were state suits about the mask mandate. I was hoping state AGs would have a better chance at success than the DIYers in the case above.
May 4, 2022, 8:02 am
#45
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I think that between Monday's leaked SC doc, the ongoing Ukraine crisis, and inflation into the ionosphere, I don't see Biden's gov inclined to move on this or even give it much priority. I'm betting we'll be testing for the foreseeable future (though would love to be wrong on this account).
