Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Coronavirus and travel
Reload this Page >

Speculation on Dec Flying as a Function of COVID

Speculation on Dec Flying as a Function of COVID

Old Nov 18, 20, 8:35 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBG / *A Gold, Radisson Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 2,613
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
We're 8 months in to this and people still are unable to grasp that individual actions have external results. And that's why we are exploding right now.
They are. It became far too common for people to think that if someone's disagrees with them, it can only be because the person doesn't understand the problem. That's not the case.

The real issue is that different people have different levels of risk aversion - and on top of that, some activities may be more important for some people than they are for others. Even with the same input and same understanding of data, some people will think the best option is to hide in a cave for two years, while others believe we need to accept the risk and go back to 2019-like life. And then there's everything in between.

One of the most social people I know these days is a doctor who actually used to work at the "Covid wing" during the peak hospitalisation level at their hospital (he was reassigned from another department due to shortage of staff). Hardly a person who doesn't understand the problem.
the810 is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 9:12 am
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,320
Originally Posted by the810 View Post
They are. It became far too common for people to think that if someone's disagrees with them, it can only be because the person doesn't understand the problem. That's not the case.

The real issue is that different people have different levels of risk aversion - and on top of that, some activities may be more important for some people than they are for others. Even with the same input and same understanding of data, some people will think the best option is to hide in a cave for two years, while others believe we need to accept the risk and go back to 2019-like life. And then there's everything in between.

One of the most social people I know these days is a doctor who actually used to work at the "Covid wing" during the peak hospitalisation level at their hospital (he was reassigned from another department due to shortage of staff). Hardly a person who doesn't understand the problem.
It's contagious. "Risk aversion" applies if you're talking about going mountain biking or something. If your coworker goes skydiving and breaks their leg then it doesn't put you at high risk of breaking your leg. I'm tired of selfish people like yourself refusing to accept their responsibility as a member of the community. People are dieing by the thousands because of you and people like you.
largeeyes likes this.
Zeeb is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 9:14 am
  #18  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
It's contagious. "Risk aversion" applies if you're talking about going mountain biking or something. If your coworker goes skydiving and breaks their leg then it doesn't put you at high risk of breaking your leg. I'm tired of selfish people like yourself refusing to accept their responsibility as a member of the community. People are dieing by the thousands because of you and people like you.
Take your personal feelings to OMNI.
cmd320 is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 9:17 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,320
Originally Posted by cmd320 View Post
Take your personal feelings to OMNI.
The post I was responding to was an extremely OMNI post. There's a half dozen or so posters [personal comment redacted] who manage to muck up every other thread in the forum by shouting OMNI opinions out there and then getting offended when people push back.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Nov 19, 20 at 12:24 am Reason: Redacted personal comment
Zeeb is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 9:30 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBG / *A Gold, Radisson Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 2,613
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
It's contagious. "Risk aversion" applies if you're talking about going mountain biking or something. If your coworker goes skydiving and breaks their leg then it doesn't put you at high risk of breaking your leg.
Agreed. This is the nature of the problem - on one hand, our risk assesment affects others, but on the other hand, there is no universal risk assesment accepted by everyone. Therefore, some people feel being put at risk by others, while others feel being unreasonably restricted in their lives. This is what creates the tension in the society.

Maybe it's not a popular thing to say in present-day society but there is no right or wrong. Just like you may be afraid of Covid, other people have their own fears, problems and disseases. What protects you may hurt someone else.

It's funny that people who expect everyone to adopt their fears, while they themselves are oblivious to the health of others and show complete lack of empathy for problems other than catching Covid, continue to claim some kind of a moral high ground and keep calling others selfish. Not to mention ridiculous claims that "people like me" kill thousands of people when I literally had close contact with two people in the last 6 weeks.

[Personal comment redacted by mod]
JNelson113 likes this.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Nov 19, 20 at 12:26 am Reason: Personal comment redacted by mod
the810 is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 11:05 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: rural Indiana - IND
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, IHG Plat, Jelly of the Month, formerly NWA Plat (RIP)
Posts: 876
In addition to an individual's risk tolerance or fear factor, I am also seeing (and experiencing) 'quarantine fatigue'. For the last several years I have traveled 40+ weeks a year for work and another 3-4 for vacations. This year I have been working at home since March and I am tired of it. I have only ventured out for a couple of family visits and weekly grocery runs (masked and distanced). I have reached a point where I feel the urge to bust out and just go somewhere/anywhere.
A good example would be my mother (85) who isolated herself at home and did not go out at all for 6 months, with family delivering groceries but not going inside. She then decided that "surviving is not the same as living" and has resumed some portion of her previous lifestyle while wearing a mask and distancing as much as possible. She just returned from a trip to California to see her sister and older brother (91), reasoning that she did not know how many more opportunities she would have to visit with him.
So, yes we have a pandemic and it is very serious. But for some the choice can be made to carry on anyway.
JNelson113, the810 and Dublin_rfk like this.
LostInAmerica is offline  
Old Nov 18, 20, 12:54 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: IAH
Programs: UA MM, AA almost MM
Posts: 1,019
We canceled our Christmas trip to Seattle because during our September/October trip we encountered many uncovered noses in the airport and several in the plane. With the cases on the rise, the possibility of some of these "naked" people are asymptomatic has also increased. UA FAs couldn't get the passengers to correctly wear the masks. Having 4 unmasked people less than 36 inches from me for 5 hours is too much stress for me. If the FAs were able to get passengers to correctly wear masks, I would have kept on flying. Sadly that is not the case. I think the FA are tired for policing the mask policy as well.
dcpdxtrans likes this.
Ilove2fly is offline  
Old Nov 19, 20, 9:47 am
  #23  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 5,739
Originally Posted by Ilove2fly View Post
We canceled our Christmas trip to Seattle because during our September/October trip we encountered many uncovered noses in the airport and several in the plane. With the cases on the rise, the possibility of some of these "naked" people are asymptomatic has also increased. UA FAs couldn't get the passengers to correctly wear the masks. Having 4 unmasked people less than 36 inches from me for 5 hours is too much stress for me. If the FAs were able to get passengers to correctly wear masks, I would have kept on flying. Sadly that is not the case. I think the FA are tired for policing the mask policy as well.
On my last week flight to SEA, no one was unmasked on the plane and I saw a total of one person without a mask at the airport.

I think that things have stabilized enough with regards to this preventive measure so that you can take your Christmas trip with less trepidation if you so wish.
JNelson113 and dcpdxtrans like this.
radonc1 is offline  
Old Nov 19, 20, 9:57 am
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
The post I was responding to was an extremely OMNI post. There's a half dozen or so posters [personal comment redacted] who manage to muck up every other thread in the forum by shouting OMNI opinions out there and then getting offended when people push back.
Suggesting each individual make their own decisions is not OMNI related at all. At the end of the day, that's how everyone is going to act, based on their own decision.

Some individuals are more risk-averse than others, though at this point we've seen no data to suggest flying is any more risky than other daily activities, in fact all the data points to it being far less risky than a trip to a grocery store or a dinner at a restaurant. You are free to make your own interpretations on what is and is not an acceptable activity for yourself, however many others have assessed this and have arrived at the conclusion that traveling with the proper precautions taken is a very safe activity. YMMV
JNelson113 and the810 like this.
cmd320 is offline  
Old Nov 19, 20, 7:19 pm
  #25  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 833
I did a poor job with my original post. I originally posted this thread in UA bc I really only wanted to hear views from those traveling on UA, where I have upcoming flights obviously through their hubs. I wanted to hear what others have seen and what they expect flying UA and the level of vigilance and enforcement. I also wanted to know if they thought / heard if flying (on UA) would increase. Obviously, UA has SFO (more restrictive), IAH (less), ORD (more, I think), EWR (more). In any event, I agree with a previous poster that if folks are being compliant with wearing masks (above their nose) and washing hands, I feel pretty good. If they are not, then I'm nervous about flying. Thanks for those that replied.
dcpdxtrans is offline  
Old Nov 19, 20, 11:56 pm
  #26  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,328
cash refund for cancelling cash bookings

With more states issuing new advisories or mandates related to out-of-state travels (eg, quarantine upon arrival/return), it puts holiday travel plans in jeopardy.

Has anyone cancelled their flights on a US airline AND was successfully in convincing the airline to refund cash (rather than airline credit)? I'm talking about paid bookings, no schedule changes.
evergrn is offline  
Old Nov 20, 20, 12:45 am
  #27  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by Repooc17 View Post
Boom! Each person should make his/her own choice as they see fit.

I am seeing my family and friends for Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, and in the process, should cross 100K miles flown this year.
::Facepalm::
largeeyes is offline  
Old Nov 20, 20, 1:14 am
  #28  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 3,956
Originally Posted by dcpdxtrans View Post
I did a poor job with my original post. I originally posted this thread in UA bc I really only wanted to hear views from those traveling on UA, where I have upcoming flights obviously through their hubs. I wanted to hear what others have seen and what they expect flying UA and the level of vigilance and enforcement. I also wanted to know if they thought / heard if flying (on UA) would increase. Obviously, UA has SFO (more restrictive), IAH (less), ORD (more, I think), EWR (more). In any event, I agree with a previous poster that if folks are being compliant with wearing masks (above their nose) and washing hands, I feel pretty good. If they are not, then I'm nervous about flying. Thanks for those that replied.
I would not worry too much about the flight experience, especially if you use goggles or face shields along with normal precautions like minimizing toilet visits. Seating areas are better ventilated than most indoor spaces, with filtered high-volume inside and atmospheric air the norm. It is your movements in ground transit through transit, security, dining/waiting, and boarding corridors that can bring more contact with asymptomatic carriers, including new traveling companions. Gatherings at your destinations involve separate risks.

Last edited by FlitBen; Nov 20, 20 at 4:34 am
FlitBen is offline  
Old Nov 20, 20, 8:22 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Originally Posted by dcpdxtrans View Post
I did a poor job with my original post. I originally posted this thread in UA bc I really only wanted to hear views from those traveling on UA, where I have upcoming flights obviously through their hubs. I wanted to hear what others have seen and what they expect flying UA and the level of vigilance and enforcement. I also wanted to know if they thought / heard if flying (on UA) would increase. Obviously, UA has SFO (more restrictive), IAH (less), ORD (more, I think), EWR (more). In any event, I agree with a previous poster that if folks are being compliant with wearing masks (above their nose) and washing hands, I feel pretty good. If they are not, then I'm nervous about flying. Thanks for those that replied.
I've flown on AA, B6, DL, and UA recently. AA is probably the closest to UA in terms of what to expect on board. I wouldn't enter with any expectation of having an adjacent seat open, most flights have been pretty full in my experience. Generally when I travel I wear an N95 from curbside until I'm seated on board. If I'm in a direct-aisle access J/F seat, decently distanced from other passengers I'll switch to a surgical mask once on the plane. If it's a shorter flight, I'll just leave the N95 on the whole time. For me it just depends on the situation.

With that said, thousands of FAs fly all the time with nothing more than a surgical mask, so realistically you'll be fine in just that the entire time, I take the extra precaution for two reasons, one I have the ability to, and two I don't really have the time to be sick. My advice is, if you're worried about mask compliance, get an N95 and then forget about it. Sitting on the plane worrying about what everyone else is doing is just going to make the experience more uncomfortable and annoying IMO.
dcpdxtrans likes this.
cmd320 is offline  
Old Nov 20, 20, 4:05 pm
  #30  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 5,739
Originally Posted by cmd320 View Post
I've flown on AA, B6, DL, and UA recently. AA is probably the closest to UA in terms of what to expect on board. I wouldn't enter with any expectation of having an adjacent seat open, most flights have been pretty full in my experience. Generally when I travel I wear an N95 from curbside until I'm seated on board. If I'm in a direct-aisle access J/F seat, decently distanced from other passengers I'll switch to a surgical mask once on the plane. If it's a shorter flight, I'll just leave the N95 on the whole time. For me it just depends on the situation.

With that said, thousands of FAs fly all the time with nothing more than a surgical mask, so realistically you'll be fine in just that the entire time, I take the extra precaution for two reasons, one I have the ability to, and two I don't really have the time to be sick. My advice is, if you're worried about mask compliance, get an N95 and then forget about it. Sitting on the plane worrying about what everyone else is doing is just going to make the experience more uncomfortable and annoying IMO.
For me, it's an N95 with a surgical mask covering it and disposed of after the flight (thereby reducing the contamination of the N95 mask). If eating
(which was not much of a concern since almost nothing was served on a 5 hour flight), I made sure it was before or after my seatmate consumed anything.
Hand sanitation was continuous after adjusting my masks. I wear glasses so I didn't think that goggles would add much to the protection already provided.

And I got a repeat Covid test after returning just in case.

I am careful but not paranoid
dcpdxtrans and FlitBen like this.
radonc1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread