Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
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Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Apr 6, 2020, 6:33 am
#2221
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Apr 6, 2020, 7:45 am
#2222
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China trying to slowly re-open, it doesn't seem like they learned anything about social/physical distancing....
"China: Tourist sites packed as country comes out of coronavirus lockdown"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp
If the west was to slowly and selectively re-open at some point, there has to be strong education and learning regarding physical distancing, masks, and other basic precaution. In the US nobody is really modeling or pushing this, and certainly not Trump who does not appear to take these measures seriously at all. No one in the task force was ever seen wearing a mask and they barely keep physical distancing, and only recently. In other words, not much serious education or learning has occurred in the west.
"China: Tourist sites packed as country comes out of coronavirus lockdown"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp
If the west was to slowly and selectively re-open at some point, there has to be strong education and learning regarding physical distancing, masks, and other basic precaution. In the US nobody is really modeling or pushing this, and certainly not Trump who does not appear to take these measures seriously at all. No one in the task force was ever seen wearing a mask and they barely keep physical distancing, and only recently. In other words, not much serious education or learning has occurred in the west.
Apr 6, 2020, 8:23 am
#2223
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If the west was to slowly and selectively re-open at some point, there has to be strong education and learning regarding physical distancing, masks, and other basic precaution. In the US nobody is really modeling or pushing this, and certainly not Trump who does not appear to take these measures seriously at all. No one in the task force was ever seen wearing a mask and they barely keep physical distancing, and only recently. In other words, not much serious education or learning has occurred in the west.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Apr 6, 2020 at 9:48 am Reason: remove personal comment
Apr 6, 2020, 8:41 am
#2224
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You aren't applying to Trump what normal people would apply to any world leader. We had better not see them wearing a mask, unless maybe they are out pressing the public flesh on the campaign trail. Leaders must project an image of strength. But no masks in the Oval office or the Rose garden! I think it is normal that he does not want to wear a mask. I don't want to wear one either. The only time I put one on is to go to the grocery store where there is no social distancing. But if I am out in the park and keeping a healthy distance from everyone I do not wear a mask.
So taking precautions is weak? You are a coward if seen wearing a mask? How would people learn to do what is right, if everyone is too cool for school?
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Apr 6, 2020 at 9:48 am Reason: edited quote
Apr 6, 2020, 8:45 am
#2225
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See this is exactly what I was talking about, nobody wants to wear a mask because it does not look cool, it is embarrassing, it doesn't project strength, so how does role modelling will occur? Do as I say not as I do?
So taking precautions is weak? You are a coward if seen wearing a mask? How would people learn to do what is right, if everyone s too cool for school?
So taking precautions is weak? You are a coward if seen wearing a mask? How would people learn to do what is right, if everyone s too cool for school?
We do not wan to spread the virus, so we put on a mask when we are in close proximity to others out in public. That's all you need to worry about.
Apr 6, 2020, 8:52 am
#2226
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Wow, so many incorrect assumptions in one post. It might be better to NOT make assumptions about why other people do the things they do. Maybe just be human and accept others and the things they do.
We do not wan to spread the virus, so we put on a mask when we are in close proximity to others out in public. That's all you need to worry about.
We do not wan to spread the virus, so we put on a mask when we are in close proximity to others out in public. That's all you need to worry about.
I have also seen reporters interviewing people about covid-19 within 3 feet distance. Nobody ever wears a mask on TV.
Apr 6, 2020, 9:12 am
#2227
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What, you haven't seen all those celebrity PSA's about washing hands, staying home and wearing masks? And just wait til the fashion houses come out with designer masks! That is what the public will follow. Most people don't listen to politicians anyways.
Apr 6, 2020, 9:20 am
#2228
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Although I get what you're saying, my point still stands. We need role modelling for learning purposes, until important role models seen doing this in public people will not get or accept this behavior. Also, all these people on TV in press conferences are out in public, and often standing too close to each other.
I have also seen reporters interviewing people about covid-19 within 3 feet distance. Nobody ever wears a mask on TV.
I have also seen reporters interviewing people about covid-19 within 3 feet distance. Nobody ever wears a mask on TV.
Apr 6, 2020, 10:31 am
#2230
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China trying to slowly re-open, it doesn't seem like they learned anything about social/physical distancing....
"China: Tourist sites packed as country comes out of coronavirus lockdown"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp
If the west was to slowly and selectively re-open at some point, there has to be strong education and learning regarding physical distancing, masks, and other basic precaution. In the US nobody is really modeling or pushing this, and certainly not Trump who does not appear to take these measures seriously at all. No one in the task force was ever seen wearing a mask and they barely keep physical distancing, and only recently. In other words, not much serious education or learning has occurred in the west.
"China: Tourist sites packed as country comes out of coronavirus lockdown"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp
If the west was to slowly and selectively re-open at some point, there has to be strong education and learning regarding physical distancing, masks, and other basic precaution. In the US nobody is really modeling or pushing this, and certainly not Trump who does not appear to take these measures seriously at all. No one in the task force was ever seen wearing a mask and they barely keep physical distancing, and only recently. In other words, not much serious education or learning has occurred in the west.
As to education/learning, I fear you may be right. As a society, I think we may quickly forget a lot of lessons we should be remembering and I am certain we will be in the same situation with another serious pandemic in the years ahead.
Apr 6, 2020, 11:43 am
#2231
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Yes, no one wants to say it but we need to start building up the herd immunity. Right now, we are just delaying the inevitable. When will this end? A month? 6 months? A year? 5 years? I don't think even with educated guesses anyone knows the exact answer.
Hundreds of thousands to millions of US citizens dying will be the result of domestic violence, poverty, suicides, and starvation if this continues for a while and furloughs become permanent layoffs. A one off or possibly two off $1200 check to some Americans isn't going to cut it either. Unemployment can't continue forever either at the level people are applying for it now, unless we want to keep printing money forever and have a loaf of bread be $1000 and toilet paper be $5000.
Hundreds of thousands to millions of US citizens dying will be the result of domestic violence, poverty, suicides, and starvation if this continues for a while and furloughs become permanent layoffs. A one off or possibly two off $1200 check to some Americans isn't going to cut it either. Unemployment can't continue forever either at the level people are applying for it now, unless we want to keep printing money forever and have a loaf of bread be $1000 and toilet paper be $5000.
I've said it many times but the US government and the US as a whole has all the wealth needed to make sure people survive. It's a political decision to not do so, pure and simple.
Preventing everyone from dying is NOT something that the US government has the power to do, so their job is to try and do their best to minimize the number of dead from disease while they CAN work on preventing starvation.
We have a good estimate of how many people are going to die if we just re-open everything and do nothing. You're making claims of "millions will die from suicides and domestic violence" but all the evidence from previous depressions does not support your claim.
If you can provide me with a source that says more people will die from suicide than from COVID-19 if we issue stay at home orders I'm happy to read them with an open mind. Until then it's fear-mongering about one thing (domestic violence/government-inaction induced starvation/suicide/poverty/inflation will kill people!) vs. factual-evidence on the other (X people will die from COVID19 if we do nothing and there's nothing we can do about making that number go to 0).
Nobody has to die from starvation in 2020 unless there's a political decision to do so. Same for homelessness. I agree that if this lasts a year that's way too long - My personal big hope is that if we can flatten the curve to the point where most people get infected over a long period of time without overwhelming the medical system, most people will acquire immunity and that will slow/prevent future outbreaks, but it's way too early to tell if that's at all possible.
Apr 6, 2020, 12:30 pm
#2232
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Domestic violence calls have increased a lot in various countries during the lock-downs. Even the seemingly serene Switzerland has seen a big jump in domestic violence calls during this situation. China had a big increase in various parts too, followed by an increase in divorces. Being stuck in tighter confines for extended periods of time with no usual social escape valve is a pressure cooker of sorts for many people. In the US, places where schools have shutdown and kids are mainly confined to home has come with fewer reports of child abuse to governmental authorities .... but that's because a lot of mandatory reporters for child abuse don't encounter children as commonly and extensively as they used to when there was no such lock-down in place.
It's always important to consider the big picture .... especially when targeting one big problem may make some previously existing problems worse and more prevalent than before applying a "solution". It's also important to consider the big picture where targeting one big problem has a solution that make some previously existing problems less of a problem than usual.
It's always important to consider the big picture .... especially when targeting one big problem may make some previously existing problems worse and more prevalent than before applying a "solution". It's also important to consider the big picture where targeting one big problem has a solution that make some previously existing problems less of a problem than usual.
Apr 6, 2020, 1:03 pm
#2233
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Apr 6, 2020, 1:53 pm
#2234
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And who says that a mask can't look cool? Slovakian president Zuzana Čaputová wore a custom mask couple weeks ago:
https://twitter.com/zuzanacaputova/s...98837631160321
https://twitter.com/zuzanacaputova/s...98837631160321
Thats right. And Darth Vader wore a mask! He was cool.
Apr 6, 2020, 1:54 pm
#2235
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Yes, no one wants to say it but we need to start building up the herd immunity. Right now, we are just delaying the inevitable. When will this end? A month? 6 months? A year? 5 years? I don't think even with educated guesses anyone knows the exact answer.
Hundreds of thousands to millions of US citizens dying will be the result of domestic violence, poverty, suicides, and starvation if this continues for a while and furloughs become permanent layoffs. A one off or possibly two off $1200 check to some Americans isn't going to cut it either. Unemployment can't continue forever either at the level people are applying for it now, unless we want to keep printing money forever and have a loaf of bread be $1000 and toilet paper be $5000.
Hundreds of thousands to millions of US citizens dying will be the result of domestic violence, poverty, suicides, and starvation if this continues for a while and furloughs become permanent layoffs. A one off or possibly two off $1200 check to some Americans isn't going to cut it either. Unemployment can't continue forever either at the level people are applying for it now, unless we want to keep printing money forever and have a loaf of bread be $1000 and toilet paper be $5000.
I do agree one check isn't going to cut it, but that's not going to lead to megadeaths. Your approach will.