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First Bag Fees & 2009 OnePass Program Changes

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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 10:43 am
  #361  
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Originally Posted by baglady
Sorry, it's not measly to me. It's about 75k miles between my husband and I.
That suggests the two of you fly a combined 300,000 butt-in-seat miles on CO per year. (25% * 300k = 75k). You can actually earn Platinum status with as few as 50k per person if you are fly on Y/H or first class fares. I would suggest you spread your business around to other carriers, that way when one of them makes an adverse change to their frequent flier program, you won't be so impacted.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 11:07 am
  #362  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
How could you ever have justified given CO your business? Regardless of CO's changes, it costs your clients more money and takes you twice as long door-to-door.
Easy:
(1) CO's SAT-MFE Y fare used to be competitive with WN's SAT-HRL full fare. I don't believe I've taken the round-trip on CO since CO raised the fare.

(2) I work on the plane, so the time preparing for the hearing or deposition is going to get spent whether I'm on the ground at my office or hotel or in the air.

(3) When I have a morning hearing in Edinburg -- which is often -- flying out of MFE instead of HRL saves time because I can't make WN's morning nonstop. For these morning hearings, I usually take the WN evening nonstop SAT-HRL the night before and the CO MFE-IAH-SAT return the next morning. In fact, I often catch a return CO flight by rushing through MFE with 15 minutes or less to spare before departure time.
I try to be very cost conscious with my clients' travel dollars. I've applied discount codes, when eligible, and taken carriers that I otherwise would not prefer (i.e. US to CLT). I stay at mid-range hotels and use multiple search engines to find the best price. I apply discount codes to my car rentals and almost always rent compact cars. So I resent a suggestion that I am acting in my own interest instead of my clients'. All I was trying to illustrate is how, in many ways, CO has become uncompetitive in the intraTexas market.

Last edited by SAT Lawyer; Sep 7, 2008 at 11:39 am
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
Easy:
[indent](1) CO's SAT-MFE Y fare used to be competitive with WN's SAT-HRL full fare. I don't believe I've taken the round-trip on CO since CO raised the fare.
CO's Y-fare used to always be the same MFE-AUS/SAT and vice versa. Now it seems, for some reason, they have recently raised it significantly to/from SAT but the Y-fare to/from AUS is still VERY competitive with WN's.

OT: I am assuming you are working soley at the county court house and not the federal court in McAllen?
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 11:20 am
  #364  
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Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer

I work on the plane All I was trying to illustrate is how, in many ways, CO has become uncompetitive in the intraTexas market.
On this I agree and for whatever reason it seems CO is willing to let everyone go WNs way. Or maybe CO thinks that people like you will be willing to Stick it to their Clients (not that that is what youd do) since its not them who will be paying out of their pockets for the flight/s.

All too often when a person is flying or staying at a Hotel on their Clients Dime, they will do whatever will benefit them w/o looking out if they could have done it cheaper and saved the Client any $$. Be it from flying WN over CO. Or staying at a Marriott instead of a *W Hotel, to renting from Thrifty instead of Hertz. I guess CO is betting that most people will still fly with them if CO is their preferred carrier no matter the cost, since its the Clients Dime
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 11:47 am
  #365  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
That suggests the two of you fly a combined 300,000 butt-in-seat miles on CO per year. (25% * 300k = 75k). You can actually earn Platinum status with as few as 50k per person if you are fly on Y/H or first class fares. I would suggest you spread your business around to other carriers, that way when one of them makes an adverse change to their frequent flier program, you won't be so impacted.
1. Because we are IAH based CO is far more convenient. 2. The MM program has given me reason to give CO more business. 3. I do have status on one other domestic and intl carrier. 4. I'm not going to start flying WN anytime soon
Trust me, I can handle the changes; I'm just not happy about it.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 11:58 am
  #366  
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CO's YUP strategy does at times seem to be directed at shifting passengers into higher fares at client and company expense. Although the vast majority of my business flying is for the entity of which I am the owner, I do have a policy that when I am billing a trip to a client, I never buy non-refundable tickets. That policy is clearly stated on our engagement letters. Funny, I have never had a client call and tell me that it is willing to pay for non-refundable ticket and the penalties when I have to cancel or reschedule. I have seen routings for which CO's sole completely refundable fare is the YUP fare.

Even in those instances in which CO is selling a refundable B or H fare on the short haul Texas routes, frequently the difference between the refundable fare and the YUP is not significant.

Bottom line, I don't see that many opportunties for client or boss chiseling on CO on the short hauls out of IAH, unless the client / boss is willing to eat the cost of unused, non-fundable fares or the penalties for changes.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 1:51 pm
  #367  
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Originally Posted by MIA-SAT
Although the vast majority of my business flying is for the entity of which I am the owner, I do have a policy that when I am billing a trip to a client, I never buy non-refundable tickets. That policy is clearly stated on our engagement letters. Funny, I have never had a client call and tell me that it is willing to pay for non-refundable ticket and the penalties when I have to cancel or reschedule.
I made the mistake of buying a non-refundable fare one time for an out-of-state deposition. The refundable fares were absurdly high, so I thought I was doing the client a service by springing for the much less expensive non-refundable fare. Of course, as Murphy's Law would dictate, the deposition eventually got rescheduled because of a medical emergency involving the witness. My client was good enough to pay the change fees (which still would up being less expensive than the refundable fare), thanked me for being cost conscious, and then instructed me that I was always to purchase fully refundable fares no matter how expensive or how gross the discrepancy between the refundable fare and the lowest available fare.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 2:07 pm
  #368  
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Originally Posted by From NYC
By your equation then, how much does still having pillows, blankets and meals bring people to CO, which they do advertise, including running expensive TV ads?
I think those differences were from another era. CO kept those at a time when fixed costs were the most significant component of their total costs, and it made sense to chase market share. I don't believe that is any longer the case. Given their capacity cuts, I suspect CO agrees.

Originally Posted by From NYC
How many more wouldve come in had CO started a newer campaign that included these plus no 1st checked bag fee? I dont know the answer to the 1st, but Im curious to find out, and well never know the answer to the 2nd. The first group has to cost CO money per ticket sold in provision, cleaning, etc. I guess you are arguing that not charging a 1st bag fee is that straw for the camel, but CO never gave the proposition a true test.
What I'm arguing is that these things could conceivably bring passengers, but they don't bring incremental revenue per passenger, or at least not as much incremental revenue as charging separately. With loads as high as they are, CO doesn't need more passengers right now, they need to raise the revenue from the passengers they do carry.

Originally Posted by From NYC
I also wonder how much of an accounting goodwill charge CO will be taking in the future, let alone if theres a drop in passengers, because of the rising discontent from previously loyal fliers over the downgrading of OP and over rising nickle and dime fees.
Very funny.

Originally Posted by From NYC
Lastly, if Easyjet and Ryanair can offer a reduced fee for people who know they will check a bag when they book a ticket online, why cant CO?
I agree. And I would be shocked if CO and the other carriers didn't move toward this method in the near future.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 5:23 pm
  #369  
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Originally Posted by Babu
As annoyed I am by these changes, there are more changes that CO could have implemented but thankfully didn't. (maybe they will in the future! )

-eliminate meals at meal time for the Y cabin (I haven't seen many ads lately boasting this feature)

-eliminate pillows and blankets in Y;

-eliminate free booze and free wireless in the PC;

-increase redeposit fees to $100;

-eliminate mixing and matching of awards (saver Y award going out, EasyPass J coming home, for example). Lots of airlines currently don't allow this;

-eliminate elite bonuses when flying partners;

-reduce BF catering (one less main course choice maybe, downsize the cheese course, drop the grand marnier, for example);

So, although today's actions really left a bad taste in my mouth, I'm trying to keep things in perspective. They did, after all, throw us a few bones recently:

--Flyertalk DO
--PDA feature
--Million Miler program
--upcoming inflight internet access
--elimination of the dreaded BF 24 hour rule.

Im sure Larry thanks you for the future "cut" ideas
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 5:24 pm
  #370  
 
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Ok so let me get this straight? We'll get the same bonuses at a Gold member and will now have to use more miles to fly to Hawaii? Seroiusly...i'm failing to see the increased costs anymore as Oil is going down and CO has reduced the flying just about everywhere? Is this more about aligning with UA?
No matter the fact, both of us are considering going to Delta this year...we don't like Star and we're not liking the "scr*w the customer" attitude at CO. Although I thank CO for their generousity over the years, my experiences lately have been basically a smidge better than US Airways.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 6:06 pm
  #371  
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Originally Posted by flyerboys747
Ok so let me get this straight? We'll get the same bonuses at a Gold member and will now have to use more miles to fly to Hawaii?
The only awards relating to Hawaii that are changing are between Tel Aviv and Hawaii. That probably only matters to you if you live in one of those two places. Your profile doesn't hint at where you are.
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 7:30 pm
  #372  
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Originally Posted by flyerboys747
Is this more about aligning with UA?
.

What continues to BAFFLE me is the fact that CO and NW/DL were soooo far off on some items of their alliance...yet CO makes BONEHEADED moves, at a time when airlines are in a downturn, to "align with UA"???
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 8:42 pm
  #373  
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Originally Posted by flyerboys747
Seroiusly...i'm failing to see the increased costs anymore as Oil is going down and CO has reduced the flying just about everywhere? Is this more about aligning with UA?
It certainly "smells like" it is very much aligning OP with UA. These changes are very discouraging....silver elite is essentially worthless now as I can't see ever going for silver for the upgrades as they rarely happen. Everything else can be had for the price of the CO uber-credit card.

Originally Posted by ssullivan
I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. Call me skeptical but my guess is that CO says "Sorry, we don't care" and goes forward with these changes.
I wrote a letter critical of these changes but don't expect anything of it or other similar to it. Customer feedback is welcome when it aligns with what we're already thinking.

Last edited by Renard; Sep 7, 2008 at 9:00 pm
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Old Sep 7, 2008 | 9:18 pm
  #374  
 
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Silver Lining to New CO changes

First, the 1-3-5 day upgrade windows are still in effect giving some benefit to Platinum. Second, with miles harder to get, if you can still manage to make your tier annually you can at least be assured that there will be fewer people at your level or above than previously thus giving you a better shot to get a complimentary automatic upgrade, presuming of course that CO doesn't get rid of those also.

Still, even though the new first and second bag rules don't apply to me due to my tier level, the fact that all these non-elites are now going to be carrying on everything they can get away with (we all know that one carry on bag and one personal item usually means two carry on bags and another shopping bag full of souvenirs). This will put a severe premium on overhead space if you don't arrive to your plane soon enough to board first with your fellow elites.

SM
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Old Sep 8, 2008 | 12:55 am
  #375  
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Originally Posted by sfogate
Do the other airlines, that charge for the first bag, have delay issues?
My experience is on AA and the answer is no. People who have to check bags probably need to spend more time in line, but there are no delay issues, no problems boarding the aircraft, absolutely no discernible difference before and after the policy was put in place.


Originally Posted by sfogate
Does anyone know if those airlines (that currently charge for all bags checked) add extra staffing to the gates because of this?
At certain airports, AA does have people screening the line; they'll send people back to the gate to check bags if they're too large. Elites and FC passengers aren't supposed to receive the same scrutiny.
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