Continental Pre/Post Merger Speculation Discussion Thread
Jan 28, 2008, 1:01 pm
#467
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An invented brand that was NOT so blatently misleading would be preferable.
Using the current example, "Raffles Class" makes no misleading implication about "similar to First" or "almost First" or "as good as First" in the way that CO's current brand does.
(Ironically, SQ's business class IS better than several major airlines' first class. -smile-)
Jan 28, 2008, 1:52 pm
#468
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Jan 28, 2008, 2:37 pm
#469
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 295
When BusinessFirst was introduced, back in the mid-nineties, it was, with the business class seat and the first class service, somewhere between Business and First. The blurring of the lines was an innovation on COs part (not just a marketing ploy), which gave it a foot-hold to compete with the then-uibiquitous (or at least more ubiquitous than today) 3-class product other domestic airlines were offering. In fact, IIRC, DL followed suit with their "BusinessElite" product. In recent years, as someone else pointed out here, the BF product has migrated to an upgraded seat, and downgraded service, and with the global marketplace for premium product having changed radically as well, the whole landscape is very different now than it was back then. This is why I think many people feel that the BF product needs a wholesale makeover. A hook-up with UA would afford CO greater flexibility to explore that.
Jan 28, 2008, 2:49 pm
#470
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 295
My guess is that we will see at least a fair number of the following in a UA-CO tie-up:
1) Move to CO-style E-. No more E+. 31" pitch.
2) Switch to *A. Hello better partners, goodbye bonus miles. Increase in the number of partial credit fares on partners, a la LH. Availability of awards and upgrades will degrade to CO levels.
3) Switch to stickers for Silvers and Golds. Plats might get unlimited upgrades, though. Chances of SWUs at 50%, but will suffer from same restricted usage as current CO upgrades.
4) Halt to the UA cabin upgrades, pending delivery of the first 787 in 2010, or whenever it comes. F will be gone, though this may mean they temporarily become an elite perk, like the US Sleeper seats.
5) Plat moves to 100k threshhold.
6) CLE ceases to exist as a hub. IAD might shift to focus city. DEN may suffer the same fate.
7) PS service? Can't decide on this one.
1) Move to CO-style E-. No more E+. 31" pitch.
2) Switch to *A. Hello better partners, goodbye bonus miles. Increase in the number of partial credit fares on partners, a la LH. Availability of awards and upgrades will degrade to CO levels.
3) Switch to stickers for Silvers and Golds. Plats might get unlimited upgrades, though. Chances of SWUs at 50%, but will suffer from same restricted usage as current CO upgrades.
4) Halt to the UA cabin upgrades, pending delivery of the first 787 in 2010, or whenever it comes. F will be gone, though this may mean they temporarily become an elite perk, like the US Sleeper seats.
5) Plat moves to 100k threshhold.
6) CLE ceases to exist as a hub. IAD might shift to focus city. DEN may suffer the same fate.
7) PS service? Can't decide on this one.
There's lots of reasons for all of us to hope for a continuation of the current status-quo.
Jan 28, 2008, 3:19 pm
#471
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Maybe I'm starting to understand where you are coming from (maybe not ?).
From the above, it sounds like in your head there is an assumption that CO would want to junk much of UA's routes, gates, aircraft, staff, and so forth. UA is losing money, so clearly there are some unprofitable routes that ought to be re-examined. Without looking at the secret internal numbers, it isn't clear how one figures out which routes those are. The international destinations mostly seem safe, but the routes to get there likely would alter somewhat.
Or maybe the assumption is that CO will go farther and just "cherry pick" the handful of routes/aircraft that are interesting ? and throw away the rest (or spin it out in some complicated way as a separate entity).
Am I getting closer ?
Oh, and where do you think UA has how much dead weight ?
(This has been pretty interesting so far.)
From the above, it sounds like in your head there is an assumption that CO would want to junk much of UA's routes, gates, aircraft, staff, and so forth. UA is losing money, so clearly there are some unprofitable routes that ought to be re-examined. Without looking at the secret internal numbers, it isn't clear how one figures out which routes those are. The international destinations mostly seem safe, but the routes to get there likely would alter somewhat.
Or maybe the assumption is that CO will go farther and just "cherry pick" the handful of routes/aircraft that are interesting ? and throw away the rest (or spin it out in some complicated way as a separate entity).
Am I getting closer ?
Oh, and where do you think UA has how much dead weight ?
(This has been pretty interesting so far.)
It's never been CO's strategy to be the biggest - but offer a highly competitive product at a fair price, to be the 'Target' of the skies (as opposed to the Bloomingdales or Dollar General).
Jan 28, 2008, 4:50 pm
#472
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 392
Please move your mouse to the respective person whose lack of "civility" bothers you and select to view their "Public Profile"; across the top is a choice to "Ignore" the offending poster. Perhaps this will permit you the type of public discourse you desire from the posters on this forum.
I would like to thank you for pointing out that this isn't "Yahoo!", but that wasn't the point; I was actually drawing an analogy to the Yahoo! feature (and we now know that you can "Ignore" a poster).
Good Day, Sir/Madam
Jan 28, 2008, 8:55 pm
#473
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Oh, I agree with that. But I thought this was the pipe dream thread, where we all talked about what we would like to see?
As I think I said elsewhere in this thread, I do not think any merger will be made for our benefit. My guess is that we will see at least a fair number of the following in a UA-CO tie-up:
1) Move to CO-style E-. No more E+. 31" pitch.
2) Switch to *A. Hello better partners, goodbye bonus miles. Increase in the number of partial credit fares on partners, a la LH. Availability of awards and upgrades will degrade to CO levels.
3) Switch to stickers for Silvers and Golds. Plats might get unlimited upgrades, though. Chances of SWUs at 50%, but will suffer from same restricted usage as current CO upgrades.
4) Halt to the UA cabin upgrades, pending delivery of the first 787 in 2010, or whenever it comes. F will be gone, though this may mean they temporarily become an elite perk, like the US Sleeper seats.
5) Plat moves to 100k threshhold.
6) CLE ceases to exist as a hub. IAD might shift to focus city. DEN may suffer the same fate.
7) PS service? Can't decide on this one.
As I think I said elsewhere in this thread, I do not think any merger will be made for our benefit. My guess is that we will see at least a fair number of the following in a UA-CO tie-up:
1) Move to CO-style E-. No more E+. 31" pitch.
2) Switch to *A. Hello better partners, goodbye bonus miles. Increase in the number of partial credit fares on partners, a la LH. Availability of awards and upgrades will degrade to CO levels.
3) Switch to stickers for Silvers and Golds. Plats might get unlimited upgrades, though. Chances of SWUs at 50%, but will suffer from same restricted usage as current CO upgrades.
4) Halt to the UA cabin upgrades, pending delivery of the first 787 in 2010, or whenever it comes. F will be gone, though this may mean they temporarily become an elite perk, like the US Sleeper seats.
5) Plat moves to 100k threshhold.
6) CLE ceases to exist as a hub. IAD might shift to focus city. DEN may suffer the same fate.
7) PS service? Can't decide on this one.
1.) As much as I love E+, CO management would probably kill it to get in one more row of Y.
2.) * all the way
3.)If plats would get unlimited upgrades, the stickers for golds and silvers could be used a pretty decorative ornaments or something as they'd probably be pretty useless.
4.) Plat at 100K .... likely
6.) IAD might help relieve a lot of the pressure now on ewr. I think it stays as a hub. LK once said at a DO that CO pulling out of Den was a big mistake. Den stays.
7.) PS could be on life support under a CO management.
I know that this is the CO board...but there are a lot of good people at UA. The bad apples there do exist and are spoken of a lot...because everyone tells 10 people of a rotten customer experience. Maybe I'm the only one who has run into bad apples at CO? I can imagine that on the UA board that they'd want to sack all of EWR if there is a merger...
Jan 28, 2008, 9:41 pm
#474
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 219
In my uninformed opinion...
...6.) IAD might help relieve a lot of the pressure now on ewr. I think it stays as a hub. LK once said at a DO that CO pulling out of Den was a big mistake. Den stays...
.... Maybe I'm the only one who has run into bad apples at CO? I can imagine that on the UA board that they'd want to sack all of EWR if there is a merger...
...6.) IAD might help relieve a lot of the pressure now on ewr. I think it stays as a hub. LK once said at a DO that CO pulling out of Den was a big mistake. Den stays...
.... Maybe I'm the only one who has run into bad apples at CO? I can imagine that on the UA board that they'd want to sack all of EWR if there is a merger...
Jan 29, 2008, 1:19 am
#475
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I've been accused of that before.
But, let's be honest, CO does not have the best track record with actually delivering genuine improvements to either the hard product or to OnePass. And no, blue carpets aren't a genuine improvement. And it isn't just CO, aside from the J class arms race, few carriers have delivered much in the way of truly positive enhancements in recent years.
Last edited by pbarnette; Jan 29, 2008 at 1:34 am
Jan 29, 2008, 2:23 pm
#476
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Did you guys see this thread?
Jan 29, 2008, 3:13 pm
#477
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Did you guys see this thread?
Jan 29, 2008, 3:13 pm
#478
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Did you guys see this thread?
The big problem is that any merger means a lot of lost jobs and that service to passengers is going to go down. Considering that US carriers are already pretty bad in terms of service, I'm glad that someone is going to make them do something about it (or at least pretend).
Jan 29, 2008, 5:54 pm
#479
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Jan 29, 2008, 6:32 pm
#480
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA Plat
Posts: 435
That would be terrible for me if they killed ps. I left CO (for the most part) when United started ps. I guess I'd have to go over to AA to get decent seats for flights between NY and LA. As would all the Hollywood-types whose contracts require first class travel on 3-class planes. That's a lot of business!