dlen111

CO should have bought HP when they had the chance (chance being when they were partners). and then alaska after that. we'd be pretty well covered at that point except for no south pac service.

jeez, i really liked the HP deal back in the day.

Xyzzy

From a route structure perspective an AS merger would be a big win.

OPFlyer

Agreed. It would drastically improve their west coast service.

supermasterphil

The biggest win would be to get out of this crappy Sky Team... You know what I am going to suggest but nobody is listening

This is actually another good reason to come to the next official DO with Larry... Convince and charm him to somehow get into Star Alliance whatever it costs

I know I am nuts

Have fun today ^ and greetings from Vlotho

Lurker1999

I think Skyteam is moving in the right direction. Assuming China Southern can pull its weight (we'll start with creating a website that actually works in a language other than Mandarin) it will add quite a bit of Asia coverage to what KE already provides. I do think they have a few things to prove in terms of tolerability of their economy product though. Copa will help to expand Latin and South American coverage. I think Emirates a closer working relationship with Emirates could also help.

I don't see a particular benefit to getting into *A particularly with whatever it costs to CO.

entropy

You really think *A would want CO? CO's TATL network would totally screw over LH and all the traffic they connect over FRA.

AS is a good fit for CO geographically, and it would give them hubs in ANC, SEA, PDX and a chance to rehub LAX. AS is also a good fit wrt EUA and 737s. However, their dispatch rate and ontime rates suck. Operationally they are a mess.
In addition, CO would have to pay too much for AS.

CO wants to stay independent, which I think is good, would be nice if they had a west coast presence but they are very focused on making steady, measured growth. 5-7% pa. I think Larry said since 2000 they've grown 60%, while everyone else is shrinking. I bet if there was space to make a move at LAX they'd move in, but it would have to be in a big way, the west coast doesn't work if you don't have a full schedule.

If United were to move in to grab CO.... oy. Their approach is very different from CO: 4 class aircraft, 777s, 747s, 767 757 737 A320, how many different express operations? TED, PS...

supermasterphil

Honestly, I see the whole topic too much out of my own perspective. I am a European member, I prefer to fly LH and to collect miles there.

CO is a good and descent airline but honestly not quite as good as LH , i.e. in regards of service. So I have my doubts they would totally screw up LH, not at all, especially for business travellers which are the most important customers anyway and well, CO doesn't have a First Class. The CO network to Europe is great but their one aisle birds are ...hm....

I want them in Star Alliance to fly them while I am in the US out of my favorite US airport EWR (due to great friends not due to the airport) and I could still collect LH miles. If somehow I need to fly CO to the US instead of LH (schedule or price), I would not feel that bad or could try to get on a CO flight to the US when seats, etc. doesn't matter that much and on the way back, I could fly LH.

Also, Sky Team is crappy in Europe, ugh, who wants to seriously fly Air France??? I know there is still KL but that's it. (to not totally loose it with AZ)

All I write doesn't matter to CO anyway....They have their reasons for their decision but me personally, I would love to see CO in Star Alliance. Everybody has to admit that most Star Alliance partners are way better than the average what Sky Team has to offer.

entropy

Of course *A is better than ST... but the point is that the existing *A airlines wouldn't necessarily want an airline that will eat their lunch.

those 752 flights are aimed squarely at business travelers, and quite frankly, the people who take them are plenty pleased with BF on them, and 1 aisle isn't as bad as people whine about.

OPFlyer

I love the BF seat on the 752. I really do not care if I fly in a widebody overseas, just as long as I am in BF I am happy.

bocastephen

I agree about buying AS, but I think it's probably too late now and would take quite abit of premium. Maybe back when everyone was hurting - everyone except CO - they could have taken them at a better price.

Not sure about the suggestion re: Hawaiian. CO already owns the South Pacific, and the inter-island flights are too cutthroat to make any money on - quite often, the three competitors are giving their inter-island seats away.

I think there was a short window when CO could have taken over UA, jettisoned the deadweight and integrated the best parts and people of it into CO's operations - but that can't really happen now. In a way it's a missed opportunity because UA's commitment to spending itself into the number one premium carrier in the US is going to give CO a run for its money.

DL has started catching 'cheapskateititis' again, having brought on what could be Mullin v.2.0 in its new CEO. If that reversal, reverses again and Delta begins sliding, it could leave UA and CO running head to head in a competition to see who can be champion of the premium carriers.

Lurker1999

I do wonder where all this money is coming from though. If they successfully sell off their maintenance division and Mileage Plus that will give them some cash cushion that they're looking for. But where's the rest of the $4 billion coming from? Employee salaries? Soft product for the passengers? I'm not aware that UA actually has any new planes on order so that may be part of it. The other part seems to be a clear focus on the premium traveller. The new F/C upgrades totally leave the economy and even E+ sections unchanged. Not even a hint of power ports or AVOD for those travellers. It seems UA is counting very heavily on their premium cabins to carry their bottom line.

dlen111

not trying to argue, just curious really. why does everyone down the ST alliance so much? I think its fine.

between DL, CO, AM and CP we've got south america covered.

the entire US (except for intra west coast travel) is covered, plus we get to choose from 3 US carriers and us CO'ers get AS as well.

Europe is so overly covered plus CO has VS. we can go anywhere in africa or india through CDG or AMS.

NW and Korean get us anywhere in asia.

is it just the australia and NZ issue?

what am i missing?

ssullivan

I agree. Yes there are holes in the route map with Australia, NZ, and some parts of Asia and the Middle East, but overall SkyTeam provides pretty good coverage.

entropy

ITs more of a product issue. AF is not as good as LH or BA. KE isn't CX, MH, SQ. ST is the "2-class" alliance, while *A is the 3-class.

Lurker1999

On the other hand if you're planning on travelling within the US as well as overseas you're left with UA or US. *A status won't get you E+ on UA and US has its own issues that are self-evident if you spend 5 minutes reading their forum. It seems that there is a big segment of people who simply endure travelling with UA to get the ability to fly with other *A carriers overseas on award flights. But that's not a really pleasant way to travel I think.