hotturnip

I realize there are inconsistencies in the story, and no question there are always two sides.

However: one thing that likely played a role is poor communication from the GA and Joe. I can't tell you how many times I've had a ticket desk person, GA, or CS person (or hotel person for that matter) who couldn't express themselves clearly and simply. They'll act as though the person IS a member of Flyertalk, and gab on about elite upgrades, load factors, revenue management and even more arcane lingo. Compounding this is the terrible language skills of many Americans today. (And I'm NOT talking about foreign accents and that sort of thing!) Vocabularies are increasingly distorted, syntax garbled, and a general inarticulateness reigns. The OP is probably only reporting what he understood. It sounds as if there was more discussion that went on that has not been relayed, probably because it was not understood. (Concerning the reasons for the escalating price, for example.) The employees were probably too busy to take the time to explain things slowly and clearly, and things escalated.

Another thing strikes me about all these people saying "don't mess with a GA." It's as though they're rattlesnakes or something. The fact is, these people are in a service industry, and should develop skills for dealing with crazy abusive passengers. When I worked in hotels and got crazy angry people, I just kept apologizing over and over again. With me, a quick "I'm so sorry for the confusion" followed by some explanation will shut me right down. I do think that while there are legitimate questions about the accuracy of the OP's account, the smirking snideness of some of these very "insider" responses is uncalled for unless more evidence is forthcoming that this is a hoax.

craz

I never meant to convey that a person should avoid all contact with a GA. If anything the opposite is true, if a person finds themselves between a rock and and a hard place its usually the GA who can be of assistance. I meant that no matter how Right a person feels they are and the GA being completely Wrong, it doesnt pay to get into an argument with them or to prove your point no matter what, since you might win the battle but most likely you will lose the war. As even if the GA sees they were wrong they probably will stick to their guns and hold they are still right. That shouldnt be the case but will most likely will be.

Calling a person out especially if there are others around isnt the best way to get what you want, especially if that person has their underlings around. Unfortyunately there arent too many people who will readily admitt they were wrong, and in front of their underlings too.

As for our case Im NOT saying who is right and who is wrong, both parties made mistakes in the way they handled it. AsI said above I was put off an aircraft by a Pilot even thou 6 different FAs who knew me tried to intercede on my behalf and were told if they brought it up again they too would be put onto report. Yes I could have said something and defused the whole thing, and I decided not to. Yes I was at least warned, dont know if the OP was or wasnt.

But although a GA should have thick skin, since this was the last LAS flight of the day per the OP it could have been a very long and trying day for the GA as well.It might have been a power play on their behalf or just maybe they have been in the same situation before and usually it got very hot via the passenger so the GA was simply looking to avoid it going there.

Each episode is different , I know people who were drunk as skunks and were able to still get onto their flight, others were told to go sober up and if you do we will try and get you onto a later flight, others told come back tommorrow others told go they wont be allowed to fly with the tkt they have. (Thankfully (maybe not) none of these were me).

otralot

I'd like to know more abiut this incident sounds very interesting

I'd like to add that sometimes GA's are in the position of trying to explain convoloted (sp) airline policy that appears to have no logic, be cutsomer unfriendly, and even the most articulate people can't explain in a way that people understand...

No wonder some customers get angry. If I were I a GA I think my refrain would be don't be made at me the suits down at Smith Street made this up on a slow day!

I knwo in couple of insatces during irreg ops I have gone to service desk to seek out alternatives and the response I hav gotten is "the computer won't let me do that." I have then asked to speak to the computer, OK, maybe a little snarky like but at least I felt better.

ContinentalFan

I have a different take on the issue.

What might be happening is that bad service is a sign of a strong economy! Perhaps people with a broader skill set are moving further up the food chain into better paying jobs avoiding entry-level positions in airlines which, from what I can tell, simply don't pay well. Poor service might actually signal something positive about the economy. (I hold that hope close to my heart every time I experience poor service )

craz

As true as that might be Id assume that Supervisors etc have been around for awhile thats why they made it up to that level.

I think it has more to do with pressure that the Carriers are under, complied with really bad wether so far this yr everywhere, add to that an ATC system thats Great for the 50's, less flights that are packed to the gills. More people flying who hadnt in the past.

Whenever I get the 'Delayed Flight' I usually wander over to the CS desk or phone bank depending on Carrier and gate area and simply listen to some of what is taking place. I'm amazed that alot more agents didnt go ballistic.

last week at ORD with AA, I burst out laughing some times as I was hearing these stories. The best was a girl (college age) who was good till she got to the desk and then the tears started flowing of cause if she didnt get on the last flight to LGA (already had 47 waitlisted- I had my BP) then due to the crying you couldnt make out what she was saying. A few mins later when she understood that she had a betetr chance of becoming MS America 2006, not only did the crying stop but she spoke into her phone and said OK tried that it didnt work, anything else.

So I agree Not everyone is trying to pull a Con Unfortunately thou more and more people are. and at the end of a long day , after having heard already maybe even twice everything under the sun, an agent can only take so much. Not an excuse for them, they should be on top of it and ask that they not have to deal with John Q Public any longer that night as they have reached their last straw. Since John Q this could very well be their 1st mishap of the day and thusly not be under the same strain as the agent. Or it can be the agent is OK but its John Q that has been under alot of pressure all day and is letting it out on a poor agent, rather then those he should have.

lvteacher

No.

TWA Fan 1

To me, lvteacher, that alone was a terrible failure in CO's customer service to you.

jtalstad

Yes, perhaps you did.

You obviously have a high emotional skill set and can with a few written words enflame the passions of your readers.

I've flown over 100k bis miles since January 1, typing from PHX, connected to the SKYHARBOR PUBLIC WLAN, waiting for a shipment. I can afford to spend some leisure time perusing FT, looking for hints and tips. Of course I'd like the front cabin on every flight but work for a company that doesn't allow paid First. How is it that you have both the time to force your points on FT and the money to spoil your kids rotten?

Why did you post? Trolling? I'm a bit skeptical but lets agree that your story fully lays out not just your side but the actual situation. Then I wonder, since you were headed there, if you won your money in Vegas. You don't work hard for your money or you wouldn't have time for FT. And you'd understand real success. Truly successful people radiate a joy of life, knowing each day is a blessing but that each day comes with trials. They deal with the trials and keep an even keel. If the boat tilts hard some days, well, they're human, but they have the ballast to right themselves.

Vote with your money and move on to another carrier. Joe is a working man. He had a bad day. You were tired. You had a bad day. That day passed. Joe was embarrassed and convicted by his co-workers admonition to calm down. He did, refunding your money. You haven't calmed down. Forgive Joe. Let your kids know you've forgiven Joe. Imbuing your children with a sense of entitlement and a culture of revenge is the saddest legacy any man can have.

mauld

Lvteacher, perhaps I am wrong, but from the wording in your original post, I would make the assumption that english is not your native language. Perhaps this was a misunderstanding that escalated due to poor communication. I cannot believe that any CO employee would engage in a 'scam' in the manner you describe. And I too, find it very difficult to believe that there would be 5 open F seats on the very popular EWR-LAS route at 20 minutes prior to flight time. Have you called CO and explained the situation in a rational tone ? As for compensation for your distress, hotel & additional flights, I cannot see CO doing any more than refunding you for the flights you were denied access.

cova

I believe it is possible that 5 seats had not been released until the last moment. I have been on flights from EWR where 80% of the F seats were released during the boarding process - on a flight to DEN. CO holds back the seats until the last minute in case of miss connects - plus LAS is a last minute F destination. This is a Wednesday night - so there could be 5 unsold FC seats - but likley not on a Friday.

I agree with Cigarman that the inventory for FC could have been something like A5D3Z2R2 - which means that once you ticket 2 tickets - you jump to the next fare category, etc.

Plus since the flight was likely from Montreal to EWR to LAS - the fare is likely recalculated from Montreal not from EWR - unless you throw away and start with a new ticket.

You really can not upgrade the ticket once the flights are started.

J.Edward

You make a good point TWA Fan - something I think hotturnip articulated earlier in the thread. If the GA or Joe had been able to explain what was going on regarding the upgrades, lvteacher's experience may have been more positive...especially if the agent could have explained why the first price was not correct and what was causing the increasing fluctuations.

Moreover, I'd also suggest that whispering (or at least appearing to do so) in front of the customer and then coming back and saying the fare increase was now even more was a poor way to handle that situation. Rather, Joe or Martin simply saying they were not sure what the fare increase would be -- and they would have to verify it would have been a better way to go forward. lvteacher (or any customer) would be in the loop and there'd be less for a customer to suspect foul play.

On the flip side, TWA Fan, I think you also have to consider the operational side of the equation. Consider the facts:

• lvteacher was presumably booked onto CO1828, the last flight out to LAS.
• CO1828 was already running late; it was scheduled out at 7:15pm and eventually departed at 8:14pm (as per the linked page above)
• The operating equipment was a 753, the fourth largest plane in the CO fleet
• At 7:55pm he and his family approached the podium to enquire about upgrading the seats; this was less than 20 minutes before the flight departed
• He asked to speak to a supervisor who was not readily available at the gate
• When the supervisor did show up the flight was nearing the end of boarding (if not already in the final boarding process)

I say this not to excuse the behavior of the CO staff but rather to point out the following:

• the flight was running late
• lvteacher asked about upgrading very close to when they agents were about to wrap up the flight
• he was traveling with his family � and I assume they were on the same PNR � thus it was not simply a matter of upgrading one passenger, but rather 4
• he might have bought his ticket with a 3rd party (I was not sure of the booking channel from lv�s posts) and if so there may have been additional complications in modifying the tickets

I suspect that when Joe came over to the gate his concern was getting the flight out without a further delay � a goal that could have been easily compromised by having to deal with a complicated, possibly third party ticket, with multiple persons. I also suspect if CO1828 was running late other evening EWR flights were too (I�m not sure how to check this�perhaps rkkwan might know of a way) and if so, I�d wager that Joe was already in a bad mood and dealing with a customer who wanted to upgrade a group of tickets and possibly cause a further delay of the flight was not high on his list of things to do.

Thus when Joe looked over the situation, whispered with the GA and finally returned the $1,000 upgrade charge the goal was to either a) collect enough funds to cover an upgrade when the exact amount that should be charged was ambiguous, b) provide enough of a financial disincentive so lvteacher would not want to ugprade (and so that boarding could be wrapped up), c) was not prepared to take the time to explain to the customer on how the charge had been computed (assuming he knew how the charge was computed). So in failure, fatigue or stress Joe told lvteacher said the upgrade charge was $1,000 and failed to provide backing, and when questioned, resorted to a personal attack. Sadly lvteacher made the mistake of returning the comment to Joe and the rest, as they say, is history.

Again, I am in no way justifying how Joe handled the situation; he did a poor job and arguably antagonized the customer. However, I want to point out that lvteacher attempted to start a fairly complicated procedure when boarding was occurring on a flight that was already delayed with a complicated ticket.

Was lvteacher at fault for trying to do so?

I�d say no and chalk it up to expatiations that were set by another carrier and lack of experience with the CO product but it was still nonetheless a mistake on his part to wait so long before asking (cigarman said it best � he made rookie mistakes). If he had tried earlier, or perhaps attempted to research CO�s upgrade policies, before the flight things might have gone better�just as if Joe or Martian had taken the tone of �We�d like to help but you�re on a complicated set of tickets � and we don�t have time to research why the upgrade price is fluctuating. If you do want the upgrade it will be $1,000 and we�re sorry for the confusion�.

In the end I suspect Joe was having a bad day and lvteacher picked the wrong time and place to try to perform a revenue upgrade.

J.Edward

...and the equipment was a 753 with 24 seats. I doubt that many business folks (or even elites) are traveling to LAS on an evening flight in the middle of the week.

My guess is that the seats were there.

Bonehead

Here's an example of what I might say when making such inquiries:

Hi. I have in the past been able to upgrade at the gate on another airline by paying a fee of about XXX dollars. Does Continental have anything like that?

IMO that approach eliminates the types of miscommunications and misunderstandings that marked this entire episode.

Just Bonehead's $0.02.

2old4coach

Talk like that in public, at the airport in Qatar you WILL go to jail.

Race card: a quote from a 20 year KLM agent in AMS: " Some people leave their country make some money, then love to dump on white Europeans and call us names, play big shots, tell us how to live, and we are racist?"

Me thinks maybe big chip on somebody shoulder.

EWR-LAS 5 open seats in F ?
Buy cheap then $2500. upgrade?????


If smell like dead fish, maybe fish die.

TWA Fan 1

Agreed.

On the other hand, here is the flip side of the same exchange (which would have been just as easy):

GA: "I'm sorry sir, we don't have revenue upgrades at Continental, but I can sell you a first-class ticket. You'll just have to pay the difference in fare."