I disagree. When my girlfriend and I travel together (she's non-elite) and I am plat. I would use my miles to upgrade both of us, so that we can sit together in FC so we don't ge split up. I think this will now prevent us from upgrading because we have to rely on the Plat Companion upgrade when I could use my miles and avoid the headache. I am hoping I can still use my miles to upgrade her...

I wonder if this only applies if she is trying to use HER OWN MILES or if I am using my platinum miles....

I think that is a valid question...

What do you all think....

- HobokenFlyer

It doesn't say that elites can't upgrade non-elites with miles.

Today, Non-elites; next year, the world! A flavor of things to come maybe?

Although I agree with the view that the changes are not that harsh (yet).

It doesn't confirm (at least as far as I'm concerned) that Elites CAN use miles to upgrade Q, T and V fares. It just differentiates Elite upgrades from non elite upgrades.

I have this sinking feeling that this was yet another badly written CO release that will be "Clarified" or "enhanced" to show that no one can upgrade Q,T,V with miles, and EUA's will be the only way to go.

According to ResAgent86, Elite accounts can be used to upgrade anyone on a T, Q, or V fare. It does not have to be the account owner. You can find the post here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/006199.html

The Membership Rewards comment is a very good one. There are lots of people with alot of MR points and no elite status (unless they're Centurion). Also, I imagine this helps to build CO loyalty as somone who is Elite this year and earns alot of miles will feel more incentive to earn Elite status again the following year to do upgrades. After the US Air debacle, this is not that bad.

How different are the new fees listed?

[This message has been edited by infiniteflyer (edited 09-18-2002).]

elites can still upgrade non-elites on discount fares.

I am not talking about theory here. I didn;t say there weren't any non-elites with miles. Of course, it is possible for non-elites to have a zillion miles. Next year I will have no status because of not flying CO this year and 300k niles in my account. Like I said most infrequent flyers I know save up their miles for a full free ticket not for an upgrade.

Since neither you nor I know the statistics of how many non-elites actually upgrade with miles, we can only conjecture what happens in practice. My limited experience tells me that percentage is very,very small.

Venk, I completely agree with you.. Almost everyone that I know around here flies CO and has a OnePass acct (90% of my clients at the travel agency did, and 80% of our tkt sales was on CO). The majority are non-elite. Since I was our resident "OnePass Guru", I would always ask clients if they wanted to use miles to upgrade, and most would look at me as if I had 2 heads. Most had never seen a FC seat, except walking by it on their way to coach. They save for a free ticket. Even my clients with large Memb Rew balances almost always transferred for free tkts, and MOST used them on otherwise cheap trips to FL (much to my dismay). I truly think the ones most affected by this change will be those ex-elites who have either changed their allegiance or cut their flying way down. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Robin


------------------
Jeez... I leave town for a month and all hell breaks loose!

Definately true. When I did a lot of business travel, they tended to scatter us on a bunch of airlies in the vain hope for the lowest fare. I have 6 frequent flyer memberships, had enough miles to make elite a couple times had the miles all been in one place, but they were so scattered that I never could hit the 25k in one year on one airline.

Put my 2 cents in on non-elites not getting to upgrade of low cost fares...

My travel has been cut significantly this year, and looks like US is the only airline I will qualify for status on this year. However, between my wife, myself and my son, we have something like 300,000 miles on CO from past flying. In addition, from business purchases on Amex, I have a ton of additional miles sitting there.

I ALWAYS shop for the lowest fare and upgrade with miles immediately when we fly together. Just a nicer experience, since most of our travel is trans-con (to CA). One thing that has always been against elites is that ANYONE with miles could upgrade as soon as the ticket was purchased. Even for frequent flyers, I bet they find a way to get 20% of their miles from NOT flying...i.e. hotel bonus, car rental, credit card..., so we know that alot of miles are not just coming from the most loyal of air travelers.

Why aren't miles upgrades subject to the same types of yield management that Elite Upgrades are ? Don't allow for an upgrade until 7 days out or similar, kind of like the electronic upgrade system.

The new process, in my opinion, leaves the leisure traveller out of ever getting an upgrade on CO, which will be the case for me.
I know, I won't be able to upgrade anymore, but at least I'll get to use my miles for a free BF Ticket to Hawaii, since we know how readily available those tickets are for those of us that want to cash in some miles.



[This message has been edited by ToddETurner (edited 09-19-2002).]

Re the speculation about a "titanium" level based on dollars spent, weren't the "Infinates" promised that they would always be at the highest elite level? If so, CO would have to make all of the infinate platinum elites titanium elites to keep this promise. (When CO changed its highest level to platinum to match NW, the infinate golds were made infinate platinums.)

For those who were not familiar with the infinates, when CO was rebuilding in the early 1990s (I think) they offered people infinate gold if they qualified for gold for 5 years. They stopped making new infinates in 1995 or earlier.

Am I missing something here ...

The CO web site also says that "Additionally, OnePass members are not allowed to waitlist for Series 0 Upgrade Rewards."

It doesn't say "NON-Elites." It says "OnePass members." Isn't this a bad change for elites? If I am an elite member and want to pay my hard earned miles to upgrade a domestic flight well before my "elite window," I now cannot even get on a waitlist for using miles to upgrade, even if I paid more for a non-discounted fare. That's a bad change in my book.

If you are elite and have a long flight that you want to upgrade (like IAH to Ancorage!) and you want to spend you hard earned miles for an upgrade 4 months out and there are no upgrade seats available, then no waitlist for you. That's not good.

If you think revenue management has been stingy with the upgrades during the elite window, imagine what they will do with this?

Am I missing something here?

Remember that anything that CO writes can usually be intepreted several ways. It would not be unusual for this to be another typo.
Second, no one has ANY idea of where you would be on a waitlist for FC since no algorithm has ever beeen released. I have seen this cause countless shouting matches at gates.
Let's say you are on a "waitlist" for upgrade seats using miles from your OnePass account. Where on the list are you? Before or Behind people who are using miles for free FC tickets and can't get a FC seat one-way? Before or Behind elite memeber looking for EUA upgrades? Before or Behind an international traveller in BF who can't get a confimed FC seat for part of his journey? There are many other possibilites but you get the idea.
IMO, anyone who actually gets an upgrade from a "waitlist" is one lucky person.



[This message has been edited by Vulcan (edited 09-26-2002).]

IMHO, elitism sucks! What is inherently wrong with buying the least expensive fare [offered by the carrier, not the passenger] and then using hard earned miles to upgrade? Why do some of my fellow flyers somehow perceive this as a threat? Flyertalk is a community and communities are, or should be, about sharing. How about stepping back, taking a deep breath and sharing the wealth? Hoarding the seats up front seems somehow tawdry to me.



[This message has been edited by afrugal1 (edited 09-26-2002).]