It seems pretty straightforward to me (in a very very bad way). If you buy a cheap cross country ticket, you will earn a mere 500 miles instead of the 2400 or so miles you currently earn (both status and actual miles). I think that would qualify as "affecting your ability to earn status miles".

Looks like you're switching to another airline.

Me too. I fly for leisure and pay for my own tickets, and as such buy alot of T and Q fares. There's no reason for me to stick with CO anymore...

I hope this is just a really bad rumour.

What this might do is drive more Elites to use travel agents, and paying a fee to secure a reasonable, upgradeable, full-mileage fare.. I thank God I still have access to SABRE and can differentiate the fares.

But what I find particularly alarming is how CO may use these new rules to manipulate fares. I usually travel on leisure fares, but rarely Q/T, as my habits usually warrant a V or B fare. At the moment, the V fares for most of my markets are only slightly above Q.. I forsee CO making that margin broader, in response to desperate elites trying to obtain mileage and upgrades.. It's a frightening thought, but I am curious: Has anyone seen a widened margin from B to K on Int'l since HoKeY was introduced (which did not even bring mileage earned into consideration)?

Robin



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Jeez... I leave town for a month and all hell breaks loose!

Given the capacity controls, I can't believe that it's the frequent flyer miles/program that are killing CO. Sure the miles are a liability on the balance sheet, but I would assume they would be valued like some sort of multi-factored option with their true worth much less than "face value".

I've always believed that the airlines overestimate the cost of the their programs while underestimating their value (in terms of loyalty and goodwill).

[This message has been edited by Billiken (edited 09-08-2002).]

OK, What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let me try again.

I am not a Leisure traveler. I travel on business approximately 100K domestically a year, and maybe an additional 50K internationally.

Because I do not get upgrades on CO like I used to, I began to fly an airline that gives me a better coach product - so have LOTS of others that have left CO. Because CO nickle and dimes me on domestic upgrades and seems to be making it worse, when I have a couple of grand to spend on a BC ticket to Europe or Asia, it will NOT be on the airline that "enhances" me into the coach sardine can, it will not be on the airline that is trying to limit my mileage earning or upgrade chances domestically, it will not be on the airline that does not let me upgrade internationally (save for drakonian rules) and it will not be on the airline that treats me like a dog-dirt cheapo leisure traveler on vacation with my family if it doesn't happen to be one of the many times I'm in a suit and paying for BF.

It's not "the leisure traveler" that CO will continue to loose, they'll continue to loose everyone. This is due to the combined strategy of a lousy coach seat, the misconceived seperation of leisure travelers (that supposedly can be treated like dirt) and business travelers (that can get the toppings), and the continued "enhancements".

Just wait till the new program benefits are actually announced. I bet Platinum travelers will have an upgrade window jumping from 5 days in advance to 8 days in advance - of course, with A565 F0 until 1 hour to flight it will just be more flying baloney.

So again, my point is that if the reason CO's elite program is "so great" is because of the unlimited domestic upgrades, and now they won't give them out, they'll be removing the thing that makes them "so great" even more than they have.

In coach, AA's MRTC, UA's M+, JTBL's leather and Direct-TV, etc. all blow the 737-900 flying "super-sardine-shoehorn-stretcher-thrombosis-creator" into the dust.

"So again, my point is that if the reason CO's elite program is "so great" is because of the unlimited domestic upgrades, and now they won't give them out, they'll be removing the thing that makes them "so great" even more than they have."

But they ARE going to keep giving out unlimited domestic upgrades -- under these rules, you simply won't earn much mileage on those flights (not that this is a good thing, of course, for frequent flyers).

Since nobody else upgrades these fares to my knowledge (except NW, which will likely follow CO's rules), switching carriers will only mean more coach time for you.

Now, admittedly, if mileage is more important to you than upgrades, or if you think you won't accumulate enough miles under these rules to remain elite, it's probably time to start shopping around. I just don't think you're going to find a better overall deal.

As longtime readers of this forum can attest to, upgrade success is WAY down, and very dependent on route. Some Platinums have a great deal of luck. Others like me (who fly transcon) never can count on an EUA. Now, if the option to maybe find the one lone "F" fare available and use miles to secure the upgrade is gone (and the miles are gone as well) then guess what, NOT WORTH IT. People will book UA, AA, etc. and skip the hassle. most people only want the FC seat for the room anyway, the rest is just nice but not the point.

At least as far as things stand now, on AA every fare earns mileage, every fare is upgradable, domestic or international. Again, this is as things stand now. Just wanted to correct this statement.

[This message has been edited by JonNYC (edited 09-08-2002).]

"on AA every fare earns mileage, every fare is upgradable, domestic or international."

Upgradable with what -- status or mileage? And for whom?

I believe that statement is also incorrect with respect to HP, UA and NW, and possibly others. Isn't DL the only major domestic carrier with any sort of limitations on upgrading cheap buckets?

NJDavid, I just adopt your complete analysis. It's a dead on description of why CO doesn't get my high-fare-bucket business travel any longer.

Miles of course-- I didn't think any knowledgeable FTers thought that anyone besides CO/NW give status-based unlimited upgrades. Nor does anyone think that any carrier gives status-based international upgrades (op-ups excluded) and of course the free SWUs that top-level elite will yield on carriers like AA and UA could be called status-based upgrades, in a sense.

If true, the T mileage thing is, IMO, worse than Delta's insULT restrictions (which might be coming along anyway). Rather than going after upgrading ability, they're attacking mileage-earning ability. Which makes even less sense considering how low the mileage liability is carried on the books and how hard it's getting to redeem a standard award.

It also puts CO way BEHIND on generosity for T fares compared to some programs. In ATL, for example, AirTran (which is the CAUSE of some of CO's T fares) has a deal where 3 RTs get a free one on their system, and 6 get a free one on other airlines in the 48 US. And a non-elite CO flyer on an AirTran matching T fare would get 1,000 miles?!? (assuming a 4-segment T roundtrip). They'd need 25 of those to reach an award level (10-12.5 for elites), whereas AirTran could do it in six.

I realize this isn't totally an apples/apples comparison (you can't get to Hawaii on AirTran, etc.), but I think it shows how changes like this could let the little guys into the game.

The fees for late-requested awards are just a targeted gouge. Used to be they'd fuss about expedited delivery, printing the ticket, etc, but with e-ticketing that won't wash. It's an artificial barrier not supported by a real cost basis. Heaven forbid they'd pass on benefits from new technology to customers.

If this proves true, it seals the decision to bolt from OnePass for me.

I disagree with Mrs. Fishbait that CO will widen the gap between Q and V fares. I don't think they are trying to move people's spending up a lot, just enough. If CO can get 20% more from someone, say $300 instead of $250, then I think that's the goal.

These changes are not all that drastic, and I think the reason is because CO knows that if it tries to "coax" loyal CO flyers to pay 10-20% more on discount tickets, they may go for it, but any more than that, and they may just go elsewhere.

While I don't care for these changes, I will have to see how things play out reacting with my feet. I've been flying more on NW this year than last, because of price, and really don't mind. I've been planning to, at some point in the future, switch to HP. This may or may not speed up that process.

The most important thing CO needs to do to make this work (other than hope NW matches) is make it easy to find the cheapeast available non-Q/T fares on the Web site. It's not possible now.

motnot:
While you are basically correct, many people that travel on business MUST accept the lowest available fare, generally a TurQey. So we don't even have the option of spending a "few" bucks more.
Also, no one has mentioned International fares. Remember that this will affect them as well.

In the interest of "full-disclosure," AA has a similar (but even more expensive) expedite fee for reward travel. It is (up until now) the single most-hated aspect of AA's program by many AA FTers-- because it is so obviously a money-grab and nothing more. Of course, these fees are waived for us top-level AA elites. (Made EXP this past Friday, rtn from CPT)

The T/Q mileage caps are slightly clarified and also further questioned on the ITYT forum link above. Re-read the original post, too.