Spiff

Did Captain Dipsh*t A*hole ever happen to drive a bus in Alabama in the 50s?

B747, I hope you contact everyone you can about this scum's deplorable actions. that captain was nothing more than a racist $#%* who deserves to be caned. And canned. Same goes for the Trooper and the CO Rep. Both of them deserve reassignment to the Hitler Youth Dung Shoveling Squad for backing up Captain Himmler.

I'm truly sorry you experienced such treatment!

Spiff

I'm sorry, I must disagree with this "extreme times permit extreme measures" defense of Captain Klucker. Where do we draw the line? "We had an accident last week so for the next two weeks it is ok to be a bigoted nazi?" I'm sorry but there is no excuse for Fascist Broderdorf's action. None.

NPFO! (for all you punk fans out there)



[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 10-17-2001).]

B747-437B

Thanks for the kind words of support. I will definitely pursue this with Continental, but I'm still deciding whether I should do this through *conventional* means like Customer Service or if I should contact some associates of mine in upper management. Either way though, it will be pursued.

To clarify some points and answer some questions raised in this thread.

a) No, I am not on the FBI watch list. I passed through US Immigration at JFK on Sunday night without a problem, so I'm obviously not wanted.
b) I have less objections against profiling as a basis for obtaining REASONABLE SUSPICION than I do against profiling to obtaining convictions. Its quite one thing to ask me for ID or to search my bags twice because I fit a profile, and quite another to assume that I am automatically GUILTY.
c) I'm not Islamic. I'm actually Catholic. Go figure.
d) This was my 28th flight segment since September 11 on DL, CO, NW and AI.
e) No cigarman, next time I will NOT rub WHITE POWDER all over myself to make me appear light-skinned!
f) Its pretty hard to show I was a threat to the flight, because I sure wasn't a threat on the previous 60000-odd miles I've flown on CO and partners in the last year or so.
g) I didn't stay calm. I was furious inside. But I wanted to get home and DL had cancelled their 8pm flight, so it was either fly in 19B or stay another night in EWR. I think I chose wisely.
g) The TPA incident was a bug in the WorldSpan-SystemOne interface system that NWA is trying to troubleshoot right now. It is totally unrelated to this.
h) In defense of the state trooper, he kinda stayed in the background throughout this incident with a sheepish look on his face. All the conversation was conducted by Captain Broderdorf.

JRF

I would not handle this through CO. Do you really think CO cares? Get a lawyer and go after them. This is the only way to help make sure it never happens to someone again. If CO pays, they remeber. Giving you miles and a cert is not going to help prevent this from happening. Also, I would go after the pilot so that the FAA has to get involved in court, that will hurt him quite a bit.

AnnaS

B747:

Probably a good move since that jerk captain would probably call you in as an anthrax scare!

Even if you were furious, the fact that you managed to appear calm sounds like a feat in itself. This treatment you got was disgraceful and that captain should, at a minimum, be put on some medical leave as he's much too paranoid to fly, if not sued for violating your civil rights.

Now, had this been UA, the captain might have done it just to get your choice row for the employee to sit in (assuming Employee Class was full).

------------------
Regards,
- Anna

fetchem

Please don't yell at me. But, these 4 points could be reason for suspicion:

a) Just entered the country.
d&f) Large amount of travelling.
g) Switched airlines at the last minute.


I too was asked to switch seats towards the rear of the plane last week. Life goes on.

twinbee

B747 my family and I had a disturbing incident with CO before Sept. 11th, I thought it was an isolated incident, but nonetheless it was quite insulting.
We were a group of eight (including three children) returning from PVR, on Sept. 1st. On the connection from Houston to NY, our seats were scattered through out the plane, although I had reserved my seats beforehand. When we arrived at the gate we explained to the agent our situation and the fact that my daughter got really sick in Mexico with flu-like symptoms. Although he was reluctant to assist us, he was at least willing to try to find us two seats together for me an my daughter. That is when an agent named Dara G. approached him and said in a very rude manner "What's this?" Referring to me and my family, while we waited there patiently. Although I wanted to explain to her our situation, she ignored us completely, and went on further to say, "did they just arrive here?" all the time ignoring us. At this point I was literally in tears because I was so upset. Our connecting flight allowed us less than an hour, to go through immigration, customs, pick up our luggage, and recheck our luggage, we were running like maniacs, and barely made our flight on time. I of course, responded to her, and let her know that I did not appreciate being objectified and treated so rudely, all along she was still ignoring us, she did not even address us once, until my sister asked her for her name to report her, and she just pointed to her name tag, and she said that is all we needed to report her. Now even though I was crying, she then threatened us for harassing her, and said she was calling her supervisor to get us off the plane. I have never been treated in such a demeaning manner. To add further insult, The agent assisting us wanted to seat my brother in an available seat in first class, that is when another crew member said, not him, "I'd rather give the seat to someone else than them", referring to my family. Which is what they did, they actually got someone else from coach and sat them in first class. We were so angry and we let them know clearly that we were not interested in first class seats, all we wanted was two seats together.
We were finally able to get on the plane, but I know we were being treated that way because of the color of our skin, and I think she even assumed we did not speak English, even though we were all born in the USA, and speak perfect English.
I wrote my letter of complaint on Sept. 10th and I was going to send it the next day. After everything that occurred, my bad experience seemed so insignificant, that I just could not send it.
Now I am ready to send it, because I believe it should be on record.
I know my experience was not as traumatic as b747's; I was very upset, I can not even imagine how you must have felt. I give you credit for remaining calm and cooperative, and although we are all very scared, there is no need to single out and humiliate only certain people.
What people are failing to realize is that not all terrorists are dark skinned people, and not all dark skinned people are terrorists.
As person of color I feel am responsible for my actions, so that the stereotypes are challenged.
Please make sure you take actions, to let others know that you will not accept to be treated in such a manner. If anyone else has similar experiences, you must do the same as well.
Sincerely,
Berna

[This message has been edited by twinbee (edited 10-17-2001).]

flightrisk

I am relating the following as anecdotal evidence only. I can't say if this FA speaks for all CO FA's.

I was speaking with a CO FA in the galley two weeks ago regarding her post-attack feelings about the job after she had commented (multiple times to multiple passengers) how happy she was that there were so many "large" passengers on this flight. I carefully asked her if she felt "suspicious" of her passengers, and she readily answered that the FA's perform "profiling." She said that they carefully examine each incoming passenger. She said that she didn't feel bad at all about "inconveniencing some passengers."

But, she also was careful to add that they are told to call in to control about suspicious passengers and they are supposed to perform an "investigation" there. She shared as an anecdote a story about how there were four or five Muslim-looking people on one flight, but control checked them out, and they turned out to be grandparents, parents, and children on holiday.

Flying was obviously still difficult for her -- she described it as taking it day by day -- so I didn't have the heart to challenge her on her actions. I'm not defending her (or the captain in this thread's incident), but I feel some compassion too for the people who have a job that reminds them every day of the terrible tragedy.

Dudster

I think it would be appropriate to use your contacts in CO's management rather than customer service. I would also consider writing a letter to the president of the CO pilot's union, as they may be in a better position to discipline the pilot. This racist f**k should be terminated, but that is highly unlikely to happen.

AKelley728

Sean,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. As one who is also of south asian decent (my mother is from Bombay), I'm deeply troubled by what happened. I'm going on CO in a couple of weeks - will my dark hair/eyes/skin raise suspicion?

I'm thinking of bringing a portable tape recorder along. Perhaps as someone else suggested, if I or anyone else here is harassed, I would pull out the recorder and simply ask - WHY should I be moved? Maybe it'll be a deterrent, I don't know.

I know in the wake of 9/11 thinkgs are a bit tense. Profiling is one thing, harassment is something else.

rocky

I know I posted this earlier, but it is relevant to the topic at hand:

[sent 9/26]

To whom it may concern:

As a Continental Airlines shareholder, Platinum Elite flier (XXXXXXXXX) and concerned U.S. citizen, I would like to express my great dismay in reading about the removal of an Asian passenger from CO flight 1010 on Sept. 19 based on his Middle Eastern appearance. (Full story: http://www.thnt.com/news/hnt/story/0...51141,00.html)

Like all Americans, I am shocked and saddened by the terrible tragedy that struck our country on September 11. For someone who flies out of EWR on a regular basis, it is gut wrenching to not see the twin towers during takeoff and landing.

It is important to take appropriate measures to ensure that we never again experience such a tragedy. These include securing the cockpit, federalizing airport security, air marshals and other such measures.

This does not include removing passengers from airplanes based on their complexion. Racism and bigotry should not be tolerated -- especially at a time when we should be coming together as a country to heal.

During the past 1 1/2 years, I've logged more than 100,000 miles on CO. Our small company has spent more than $50,000 on CO. Despite recent events, I have 19,000 miles of travel on CO planned for the next month.

Please tell me what Continental is doing to ensure that I won't be the pulled off one of its planes simply because I have dark skin.

[and the reply from CO on 10/3]

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX:


Thank you for your email. On September 14, 2001 a new Security Directive
went into effect at all airports. The Federal Aviation Administration is
working with the airport operators and air carriers to ensure that the new
stringent security measures are being applied. This decision was made in an
effort to preserve the nation's air transportation security.


"Continental Airlines does not approve or tolerate unlawful discrimination.
This is a matter of policy and culture."


Thank you for communicating with us and for the opportunity to address your
concerns.


Sincerely,


Rosie Memari
Manager
Customer Care Dept.

cabolew

We have sent our troops into harms way to protect ALL American's rights, freedom and liberty. It's too easy to point a finger at some one because they may fit a "profile." I hope as time goes on everyone finds a personal strength to work together as a nation.

By the way... I would sue their pants off!

70Jaguar

FYI here is an address for Continental's corporate headquarters:
1600 Smith Street
Houston, TX 77002

LGA

This would come from Berkeley.

Like I said: "I don't know that I would give as much credit for perceptiveness to a CO pilot in a spontaneous security screening as to an El Al employee whose full-time job is to screen."

So if you think it's "of dubious validity and effectiveness if performed by people with no real qualification," then it would follow that you think a screening performed by professional screeners would be more valid and effective (although, according to you, still objectionable (?)). Agreed.

B747-437B, I'm sorry to read you were "screened" my some (crackerish?) CO pilot. I hope you get a reasonable response from them without having to get litigious (the lawyers would probably suck up most of the winnings (if any) anyway!).

kishna

And you're from NY. What's your point? Do you want to engage in stereotyping?

Don't disagree with you there.

The law recognize that certain types of profiling, stereotyping are unlawful. For example, racial redlining for car insurance based on where a person live may also be unlawful -- courts are undecided on this issue. But it is an issue and not a undisputed practice.


It doesn't follow that the converse is always true. A pilot's first training is to fly a plane. A police officer's first training is to enforce the law. Profiling based solely on skin color runs an (in my opinion) unacceptable high risk of error whether done by police officers, pilots, or anyone.


[This message has been edited by kishna (edited 10-18-2001).]