Is anyone else puzzled by all the praise heaped on CO in the press? I have flown both CO and NW a fair amount over the last three years, and I just don't think CO is all that great. Their upgrade policies stink, and their people aren't particularly nice. There are good things about CO, of course--their on-time record, new planes, and in-flight amenities (especially internationally). But overall they are not that great. In fact, I have found NW's people to be more pleasant, especially the rez agents. CO's rez agents are often surprisingly unfriendly. NW's have always been exceptionally pleasant and professional (in my experience).

Some very valid points. CO res is not the friendlies place in the world, although they do treat elites pretty well. I have found NW res to be very nice and accomodating. NW domestic service leaves a lot to be desired, including the lack of entertainment and relatively poor quality meal service. That being said, my last 4 flights on NW metal have been suprisingly nice, except for the entertainment, or lack thereof. However, food service and first class comfort, for the most part, is much better on CO. Cannot speak toward NW WBC vs CO BF, but will taking NW to BKK in October, and will let you all know what I find.

In general, CO is somewhat overrated. Especially with the new international upgrade fare policy and the terrible international upgrade availability, I would not be suprised if OP lost the Freddy next year. Maybe THAT would wake someone up!

[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 07-20-2001).]

I did forget to mention, however, that the domestic upgrade policy for CO is FANTASTIC for elite members, only matched by NW and HP.


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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!

I don't know about that... I have far less trouble upgrading on NW. CO quite often does not allow me to upgrade before check-in, even when FC is almost empty. (I see quite a few flights on ITN showing A9 F0.) With NW, I am usually upgraded automatically at midnight the day before departure, the usual timing for Silver Elites.

"...In fact, I have found NW's people to be more pleasant, especially the rez agents...

I don't know about this! Must be the luck of the draw!

In the pre Gordon Bethune days CO was a lost airline. Without good leadership and often under the protection of the bankruptcy court the airline provided only the most bare bones product on a mishmash of old planes. In this environment even the really special employees (the ones we love to praise at FT) could not properly do their job and the customers and employees were miserable.

Gordon turned this airline around by empowering the employees to solve problems and rewarded them for good service. For example, when he announced that there would be a bonus every period that CO is in the top three airlines for on time performance and even a bigger bonus if CO was number one, CO quickly became one of the most on time airlines, often number one. Almost overnight everthing at CO was different: they provided great service, they bought many new planes and began retiring older ones, they were on time, complaints were down, and employees were motivated. As a result CO started making good profits. To attract more customers CO began a very popular and successful ad plan (Work Hard Fly Right) in which they market themselves as a simple airline (clean planes, comfortable seats, on time performance...). They also gave out tons of upgrades or compensation to both new customers and anyone who made a complaint. Employees, customers, and shareholders were all happy. This was another "Cinderalla" story or "Americam Dream" story; however you phrase it (Gordon called this story From Worst to First) the press loves loves loves these types of happy ending fables so the media began printing and airing happy CO stories everywhere you turned. And while every airline including CO has problems and "horror stories" so to speak, from the mid 1990s until about 2000 CO EARNED the accolades bestowed upon them by the press. But as with anything else in the press these days, these stories became overblown and expectations of the customers increased. And like any honeymoon period, it ended. So now CO has settled into a profitable way of operating an airline and sometime recently, maybe within the past 18 months give or take a few months, as evidenced by the postings on this board, CO began changing. Some of the most vocal and loyal CO elite members who post here became outraged at the sheer number of what are seen as mostly negative changes to the OP program. Loyal elite members of other airlines, such as UA which has had so many problems since last summer, often comment about the negativity on the CO board from all the complaining done here.

I live in New Jersey near EWR and I started flying CO for non stop flights. Despite bad service in and around 1987 it was still easier to fly direct to BOS or MIA then to connect in ORD, IAD, ATL etc. Now I love CO and most of my experiences with them are good, but a search of FT will document some of the bad experiences I have had. And no I do not like flying transcons in 737s or eating cold boxed lunches but I think CO is a really good airline. And I choose CO over all others now because they meet my needs the best which is mainly affordable non stop domestic flights which I can upgrade on and good airport clubs plus all that clean plane etc stuff.

So, no I am not puzzled by all the positive press CO gets since they earned that press but their honeymoon period with the press will end, probably soon. What I am most concerned about is whether they can continue to provide really good (not great) service or whether the dreaded accounting department will make cutbacks and changes that make CO like all the other airlines. For a while CO was really special, and now they are really good and thats ok. I just hope they stay that way.


[This message has been edited by amazing nj (edited 07-20-2001).]

I hardly ever have a hard time with CO service, whether considered in whole or in particular with certain individuals.

Also, as someone who is not liable to walk around airports with my white-metal coloured OnePass card taped to my forehead to make sure everyone knows my "status," I don't attribute my experience to the fact that I'm Platinum Elite, either.

However, I do believe this may have something to do with the fact that I have a generally positive outlook, a pleasant disposition, and perhaps an appreciation of the fact that a grumpy agent at CO is probably going to be grumpy whether he or she is at CO, NW, UA, US, driving a beer delivery truck, or working out of a corner office in lower Manhattan.

I believe you get what you give.

I have found in my experience that the phone rez agents are most pleasant when you get the Tampa office. Great people there.

In person, I have grown to resent the attitudes and arrogance at EWR. I lived for the past 23 years there, and for the past several years I have noticed a real change in attitude there - for the worse. And this surprises me, because I'm a New Jerseyan and have come to expect a certain level of "attitude" in the tri-state area.

So if it shocks and surprises me, it's a bad thing!

Tell it to DOC


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Al

Sure it's easy to get upgraded on NW... NOBODY want's to fly them, if their fare is equal to CO's. We fly then because CO doesn't go to that destination or NW is cheaper. NW does have nice employees... HOWEVER, the management has it's head firmly planted up (you know where). The employees of NW HATE their employer. And NW can do VERY bad things to travelers, they seem to have a knack for it. Planes older than Brittney Spears, the microwave, the cordless phone, the cell phone, the computer, etc. Don't get me started...

Planes older than Brittney Spears


As long as they have pilots older than Brittney Spears, I am happy.


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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!

"planes older than Britney Spears"...that's a funny line--I laughed. However, my favorite seat of all time is in WBC, upper deck, of a 747-200.

I concur (and I don't always) with cigarman's statement of NW's employee/management relationship.

Despite the changes to CO's OnePass, etc (a negative on balance), the ONE major thing that will probably keep CO ahead of the pack is that CO does in fact have solid employee relations with management, and this does spill over into customer service...not perfect but will trend much better than the airlines which don't--that includes almost all of the majors. Until someone can bring internal discord to CO and/or make AA, etc. a lovey-dovey place for employees/management, CO will generally win out (provided that they don't diminish the OP program below its competitors, as CO inches it down).

JL2

NW DC9s, A319s only has 34-35" seat pitch in F/C, with dirty cloth instead of leather!! And I don't find their FAs better than CO either. Agent from Elite Priority Line always treat me nice, although it is rumor the EPL is directed to regular agent. Overall, CO is way better than NW IMO.

I am an unabashed fan of CO.

On over 100 segments in the past several years, I've been late (more than 15 minutes) only around a half-dozen times. And I connect through EWR more than half the time. In fact, I have been more than 15 minutes EARLY (and a couple of times 30 minutes early) more often than I've been late.

Anytime there has been an issue, CO employees have never failed to be helpful and courteous. I didn't have to beat them up to 240 me on another carrier when I would miss a connection. A stark contrast to UA, which was quite content to suggest I sleep on the floor in ORD when they COULD have put me on an AA flight home (back before I knew any better)

Their domestic upgrade policy is terrific. I fly $200 - $300 fares on average, and end up in FC most of the time as a SILVER. And the bonuses... Show me ANY airline giving those bonuses that CO was giving earlier this year...

Their fleet is new and well-kept. I suspect that is a big part of the reason why I've been on-time so often is that newer planes tend to break down less frequently.

Their phone agents are always pleasant. They are mistaken from time to time, as it is with any organization, but I've never had an agent who was anything less than courteous and polite.

I compare that to the Gate Agents at DTW on NW - where I have yet to even see a smile even when I pay them a small compliment.

Is CO overrated? If you have a bad experience, it would be natural to think that. But if you fly them often enough, I suspect you'd find that bad experiences are in the minority.

As for me, it has been my experience that CO keeps their promise to get me to my destination on time and treating me in a polite and professional manner. There is no overrating that.


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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

NW first class on DC 9s is no more than glorified Y+ of UA. I was pretty surprised (and disappointed) on my first trip on a NW DC9 first class this month. The service, however, in both coach and first was excellent, as were the gate agents and the ticketing folks. The A319s were signigicantly better in first.
Also, I love their Jimmy Page beer.

[This message has been edited by knit-in (edited 07-23-2001).]