hoyateach

Two words: hand scanning. Also works for people on crutches, elderly folks in wheelchairs, and young guys with dark beards (like me!).

channa

And those who don't take off their shoes.*


* Applies only to "shoe carnival" airports as designated in the FT Travel Safety/Security Forum.

flymeaway

Holy canoli lawflyer....what a terrible situation for everyone - the elderly couple, the obese woman, and you. That you were in this situation as the result of a good deed made it even more unbearable, I'm sure. Aren't you glad you weren't headed to Hong Kong?

In fairness, the concierge probably wasn't aware of the obese woman's last-minute fare purchase when she approached the BF cabin with the quandry. I don't know if she could have (or would have) blocked those two seats, but she probably didn't realize it was necessary either.

I don't know what the answer is for obese passengers...I do have sympathy for them. It's not easy or always comfortable for a fit and trim person to travel. I can't imagine having to do it as a person of very large proportions. Sometimes, when I'm at the boarding door greeting passengers, I see the anxiety in their eyes - wondering who'll they'll be seated next too, if they'll have the luxury of an empty seat next to them. I've had a couple of passengers nearly in tears when they found their seatbelts don't fit, before they knew that there are extensions available. They're dreadfully uncomfortable, physically and emotionally - and they know you are too.

Anyway...it is a problem. I don't know what the answer is, truthfully. Southwest's policy of requiring the purchase of an additional seat is...sad and tactless. Pragmatic, yes, but..ouch. In any case, I'm sorry your flight turned out to be such a nightmare (and sorrier for the attitudes of some of your FA's - there were no easy answers or solutions, but it sounds as though they could have handled it more diplomatically).

Good luck...I hope your trip to Paris was enjoyable enough to compensate for the problems a bit..

HobokenFlyer

PMTSB,

Sorry if I offended you that wasn't my intention to offend anyone who is gay, etc. I mentioned it was satire. It was meant to offend to prove my point. Now, I know you meant it offensive in the way that obesity is a choice and sexual orientation is not, fair enough. But it is true that weight loss are easier for some than others. That is not a choice. I am not talking about gladular issues. I am talking about genetics. Someone who is genetically predisposed to put on weight has a harder time keeping it off than someone who isn't.

For the unintiated here are the three main body types:

The ECTOMORPH (in words of Penn & Teller, "Skinny F***")

* Definitive "Hard Gainer"
* Delicate Built Body
* Flat Chest
* Fragile
* Lean
* Lightly Muscled
* Small Shouldered
* Takes Longer to Gain Muscle
* Thin

The extreme ectomorph physique is a fragile and delicate one. The bones are light, joints are small and muscles are slight. The limbs are relatively long in proportion and the shoulders droop. The ectomorph is a linear physique. Straight up and straight down, and may appear longer than he or she really is, due to the length of limbs coupled with lack of muscle mass developed on those limbs. The ectomorph is not naturally powerful and will have to work hard for every ounce of muscle and every bit of strength he or she can gain.

Other Ectomorph Traits

The extreme ectomorph may have long fingers, toes and neck are long. A pencil neck you could say. The features of the face are sharp, and the shape of the face is triangular. The lower jaw is somewhat receding. The skin tends to burn easily. Extreme ectomorphs may suffer from extremes of temperature. Due to the great body area in relation to muscle mass, the ectomorph may suffer from great heat, and due to low body fat, the ectomorph may suffer from great cold. The hair is fine and grows quickly and is sometimes difficult to keep in place.

Famous Ectomorphs

Lisa Kudrow, Kate Moss, Brad Pitt, Seth Green, Edward Norton.


The ENDOMORPH (in the words of Penn & Teller, "Fat F***")

The body of the extreme endomorph is round and soft. The physique presents the illusion that much of the mass has been concentrated in the abdominal area. This may or may not be true. The arms and legs of the extreme endomorph are short in length and taper. This may give the appearance of stalkiness. The hands and feet of the endomorph are comparatively small, and the upper arms and thighs are often more developed than the lower parts of the arms or legs. The body has a high waist.

Other Traits of the Endomoprh

The skin is soft and smooth, and the hair is fine. The head of the endomorph is spherical. The head is large and the face broad.

Famous Endomorphs

John Goodman, Roseanne, Jack Black.

The MESOMORPH (In the words of Penn & Teller, "Plain old F***")

* Athletic
* Hard Body
* Hourglass Shaped (Female)
* Rectangular Shaped (Male)
* Mature Muscle Mass
* Muscular Body
* Excellent Posture
* Gains Muscle Easily
* Gains Fat More Easily Than Ectomorphs
* Thick Skin

The Mesomorph Body

The mesomorph has well-defined muscles and large bones. The torso tapers to a relatively narrow and low waist. The bones and muscles of the head are prominent. Features of the face are clearly defined, such as cheek bones and a square, heavy jaw. The face is long and broad, and is cubicle in shape. Arms and legs are developed and even the digits of the hand are muscled.

Other Traits of the Mesomorph

The skin of the mesomorph is thick and the mesomorph tans well. The hair is heavy in texture.

Famous Mesomorphs

Bruce Willis, Sylvester Stallone, the majority of Mr. Universe winners.

--------------------

My point is that someone who is and ectomorph and mesomorph have an easier time that endomorphs in losing weight and keeping fit. This is not an excuse to not eating right and exercising. But the point is that an endomorph can have the same diet and exercise plan as an ecto or meso-morph and not achieve the same results.

Their are some people who believe (and most are ecto and meso morphs) that if you just ate and exercised like themselves that you would look as great as they do. I agree and disagreee. I agree that an endo could, but not with a lot of hard work and more hard work than the others; also it would be harder for them to lose and maintain as the other body types. I disagree because the reason why its so easy for meso and ecto's is that it is easier and since it is easier they don't understand why it's much harder than for the endo person.

To continue of my "replacement" thing; think about math. Some people math comes easily, others it is very difficult and hard to grasp, but they are still very smart and their are some who just don't get it because they lack the IQ (nice way of saying, "not so smart"). The same goes for weight maintenance and exercise efficiency; some it comes easily (mesomorphs); some have a hard time at it, but are still capable (ectomorphs), and some just don't have it (endomorphs).

Still hard work or laziness by any of these groups can lead to success and failure, which is where the personal responsibility come into play.

I hope I have made my point.

PMTSB, sorry to offend, but I hope my further clarification is seen as a way to remedy that offense.

- HobokenFlyer

HobokenFlyer

Quite interesting after reading the link. But to me it sounds like a bunch of gibberish that internet/usenet nerds thought up to sound cool and philosophical to get female internet/usenet nerds in the sack. My analogy to the 3rd Reich may be over the top and no one on this board is "Hitler", (hopefully no one will be ever again). But it illustrated my point and maybe got some to think. Now, would a better and more learned man would think of a BETTER example that Hitler, possibly. But such is life, didn't have time to think of something so I could avoid violating an obscure law on the internet. I agree it might have some validity in some cases in real world; but I hardly doubt our little discussion would cause the mild validity to be a concern.

- HF

chuckd

That is a crappy situation (referring to the original topic). Being someone who actually watches what I eat and exercises and having been in a similar though much less drastic situation I can sympathize, at least a little. there is no reason you should have to deal with her obesity. It is the airlines job not yours or mine. This kind of thing just pisses me off. There are different body types, sure, but none of those include morbid obesity. What it boils down to (except I guess in Cushings or Addison's) is that calories expended need to match calories consumed. I have no sympathy for people who can't take an objective look at themselves and realize that their condition is not only terrifically unhealthy but also unfair to others, and choose not to take control of their life. PC aside, it really is that simple. there is no reason I should have had a roll of lard hanging over my armrest the entirety of my last return from LHR.

tristan727

Being engaged to someone who is a leading doctor in the field of obesity, I can definetly (without remembering or using all the fancy words to describe it) vouch for the fact that obesity is not necessarily the fault of the obese person, but can be due to an absence, or excess, of various 'stuff' your born with. Hence I'd call this discrimination. Being English, I wouldn't know if anyone has sued in the U.S., but I'd imagine they could and should have.

Personally though, I'm all for charging on a weight basis, with the luggage all thrown in - I don't see why I can't get a discount for carrying just hand luggage on a long-haul flight.

Houston Cowboy

The initial compensation package for moving to Y was a good deal but you should have asked if the seat row was blocked and that would have been your condition for moving.

I would have refused to take off next the the fat woman and asked to have been deplaned (thus possibly delaying the flight if you had any hold baggage checked in). You should have said your downgrade deal was dependent on the three seats being yours for the taking!

I have no problems with grossly obese people flying so long as they pay for any extra room they need and "excess fuel surcharge" for the extra fuel used to transport their additional mass.

Cowboy

BenjaminNYC

No one is arguing that there are some cases where it is not hte fat person's fault. What most logical people are saying is that in MOST cases, it IS the fault of the obese person.

BenjaminNYC

If the "strong man" was too big to fit into one seat, then of course I would like him ot buy two. What is your point? Although I must say that the sweaty fat roll of that woman sounds more disgusting than a body part of a large extremely fit person. But yes, ANYONE that takes up two (or 1.5) seats should pay for 2.

divrdrew

So let's say we have some people that have a medical condition that causes their obesity. Can this be considered a handicap and can the airlines be sued by not providing them an extra seat to accomodate that handicap? I recall there have been recent fines levied that related to wheelchairs and handicap access. Can the same argument be made for obesity that is related to a medical condition?

MileKing

Discrimination? That's utterly ridiculous! I'm vertically challenged and can't reach the top shelf at the supermarket. I don't like that because I can't reach products I need; I guess they are discriminating against me. It's amazing how people are quick to bring up the 'D' word when something is not to their liking.

The issue here has absolutely nothing to do with discrimination or whether obesity is inherited, a medical condition, or comes from over-eating. The simple fact is that airline seats are a certain size and some people can't fit into a single seat without encroaching into someone else's seat. (We can argue over whether airline seats should be larger, but frankly, that isn't an issue here either. The seat size is what it is.) Given that, someone who can't fit in a single seat should be required to pay for a second seat. Imagine if I rented a 4x4 storage space, filled it up, and then started using the storage space next to mine. Is there anyone who thinks that because I have more stuff that I am somehow entitled to this second storage space without paying? What if I was at a restaurant, ordered a steak, consumed the entire steak, and then requested a second. Anyone think I am entitled to that second steak (without paying) simply because I am still hungry?

Although I am not a Southwest fan, their policy of charging for a second seat when someone can not fit in a single seat is right on the mark.

HobokenFlyer

Unpleasant would be a nicer way than saying "disgusting".

- HF

CraigS

My point is- are you just against giving overweight people a break- or you do have a problem with anyone that does not fit your definition of "normal sized"? Would you make such a fuss if Jessie Ventura sat next to you and asked if he could put up the armrest?

By the way- how does one buy a 2nd seat for themselves on CO.COM? Do you just put your name and OP number in for both seats? Do you get double miles? I would think that you should!

BigPoppaCO

Dude, you need to give it up. Are we really THAT afraid of offending someone? Are we that PC? The simple fact is, someone literally overflowing into the seat next to them is disgusting, you really need to get over yourself. The dentinst is "unpleasant", rubbing up against someones excess fat as it invades your personal space while flying is DISGUSTING.