Bonehead

Caribbean? South Pacific?

BigPoppaCO

I'd vote that you not read it any longer

CraigS

I think most of the negative posters here need to take some intense diversity training....

Weather it’s a physical or mental problem these people need help and consideration- not to be calling them names like pigs and telling them they smell. I’m sure the lady in the OP situation was just doing what the FA was telling her and didn’t have much choice in the matter either, but everyone seems to want to blame her.

I think there is a policy about the armrest being up and having to pay for additional seat- Although most major air carriers will accommodate these people if they can without having to embarrass them or infringing on other people's space. In this case- they should have pulled the lady off and put her on a later flight with more room.

I don’t think anyone that is that large likes being that way- it amazes me that the mature, educated, professional community we have here resorts to school yard name calling, That is not going to help- slapping the donut out of their mouth (violence) is not the answer either.

People are getting larger but the seats in coach are not- that is why this problem will get worse….

climbermom

I agree. I don't think anyone would choose to be this size, if they truly had a choice. And I agree that name calling and negative comments are unnecessary.

I do think it is important to point out, however, that these oversized people certainly are aware of the fact that they are making others uncomfortable. It is this sense of entitlement to believe they have a right to infringe on other pax seats that I find appalling. Whatever the cause of their obesity, they can recognize the need to purchase two (or more) seats. It is not discriminating against them at all.

If I were that large, I would be HORRIFIED to have my flesh oozing onto someone I didn't know. I get uncomfortable when "arm rest hogs" feel they deserve the use of the entire arm rest.

J.Edward

"...we still offer meals at meal time..."

Perhaps Chavon can come over and assist with making sure the seatbelt(s?) are fastened low and tight, the seat backs are in the upright position, armrests are down and tray-tables are in their upright and locked position.

Or, you can buy the cattle-prod featured in SkyMall with the ‘special in-flight order form’ and earn not one, not two, but FIFTEEN OnePass miles for every dollar spent!



I'm sorry, I just could not resist any longer...
J.Edward

jwhite4

My feelings exactly. Americans ARE getting larger (new article earlier this week on how much extra in fuel airlines burn because of heavier passengers), and like it or not, airline seats aren't. Combined that with fares that relatively speaking are as low as ever, you are going to have more POS/COS flying, so this problem is not going to go away. Asking one passenger to 'accomodate another' by basically giving up half of their seat isn't the solution.

Southwest is on track, make these passenger buy a 2nd seat (and cut them a break by having it be at either their ticket price, or the current lowest price), with the option to have that money refunded if the plane goes out less than full and therefore there could have been an empty seat next to them.

The other thing that airlines need to do is come up with better guidelines, and inform passengers of them. I'm not sure there are absolutes (there are probably some passengers that are 350lbs and aren't a problem), but there's no problem being more vague, ie. "If you are over xxx lbs, or your waist or hip measurements are larger than yy, you need a seatbelt extender, the measurement around your arms is zz, you MAY need to buy a 2nd seat." I'd like to add a clause that if you aren't flagged on your originating flights, you shouldn't be stopped coming back, although if you are on mainline jets going out, and RJ/props coming back, the size issue could be different.

Jeff

MBM3

Being overweight is a challenge for a lot of folks, whether it be genetic or a symptom of our underactive society. I disagree with the blatent rude name calling as much as I agree that it is wrong for others to suffer due to seat overflow.

Granted, I am a bit sensitive. While by no means being skinny, I am also 6'4" with broad shoulders and big legs. Does fat rollover the seat? No, but I certainly take up every bit of the "box" for my seat when I am in coach. Luckily, 90% of the time I grab window bulkhead seats to make everyone's life easier ( I lean on the exterior wall ). This works until those amusing times when 2 other big guys grab seats in my row. This happened earlier this year and it was comical! It was a short flight, so we were able to smile about it and provide a little chuckle for the flight attendants.

climbermom

Don't agree here. That wouldn't solve the problem if you were the passenger sitting next to the COS on the return flight. And just because someone got away with it once, doesn't make it right.

BigPoppaCO

People, we are talking about a woman literally OOZING into the seat next to her. Thats gross. This is a funny thread, so stop being so uptight. Also, I would love to know how many grossly obese people out there actually have "glandular" problems. Walk through any airport food court, look at who is eating what and then get back to me. I sympathize with those who do actually have these problem, but it seems like a convenient excuse. (that and suing McDonalds) Any doctors on here want to shed some light on this? I am sorry, I just have ZERO sympathy for someone who brings it on themself. Look at the kids in America, you telling me its all glandular?

LawFlyer

OK, kids, I just talked to the BizFirst concierge at IAH who called me yesterday. I knew him pretty well, as he often works CO 10 that I take to CDG every month -- so maybe it helps that he recognized my name? Well, here's the response:

1. He apologized for 5 or 6 minutes straight. He was obviously reading from the actual Comment Card the ISM gave me before disembarking, because he addressed everything I said...and then some. After every point I made, he acted horrified and deeply sorry, and he sounded sincere.

2. Remember the silly FA who told me to "accommodate all pax" and "raise the armrest," etc? Turns out she was not an int'l-base FA from IAH. There had been several sick calls, some severe weather in Houston (preventing a dead-heading crew from arrving on time) and other problems, and it turns out she was pressed into service at the last minute with less training (and less seniority) than her colleagues on the flight that day. I KNEW at the time (and it was obvious) that she was undertrained. It REALLY showed, and CO has taken note, apparently, because the concierge mentioned it to me.

3. He said that the solution of a crew rest seat should have been offered immediately. I told him that even AFTER I took up residence there, I got dirty looks from some of the FAs who then had to take their (well-deserved) duty-break on a jumpseat, or on the seat next to me! The concierge said that those FAs had been spoken to, and he called their names correctly (yes, I had noted them while onboard). One FA who took a quick break next to me was very apologetic to me, but others were huffy and cold -- as if I had done something wrong. Very odd, considering that I am CO Plat, spend $50k per year in airfare, and I have NEVER been anything but kind and appreciative to crew and pax alike until this bizarre incident. Of course, I know that CO Plat or CO Nada deserve the same treatment: at least one seat per pax!

4. He offered a free J ticket to Europe/Asia/South America for the trouble and the treatment, especially since I had given up by BF seat to accommodate the elderly couple to begin with. And frankly (as I told the concierge) that's waht really began to get to me. Yes, sure, I accepted the compensation of a free J ticket onboard to move back to Coach to allow the old guy to board, so I'm fine with that deal. BUT, I do feel (selfishly?) that I went a bit above and beyond, and I helped CO out of a bind -- yet when all this happened with the monstrously huge woman, CO treated me as if I were causing the problem! And remember: this is AFTER the concierge at CDG promised me an empty row of coach seats, part of the deal to move back there to begin with! Sorry, but he reneged on his promise -- and I still did not make a fuss until I had NO seat left at all. THe concierge understood all this, so he says.

5. Bottom line: I got one roundtrip J ticket for the move back to Coach, one roundtrip J ticket for putting up with the FA's bad attitude and lack of help in a difficult situation, and free passage back to IAH from CDG (a refund of the return portion of the J ticket I was flying on). So, that's 3 roundtrip J tickets for about $1800 (the price of the one-way J from IAH - CDG last week).

6. I am pleased with the deal. I never made a fuss, and I was NEVER a jerk about it. I smiled, flashed lots of teeth and batted my blue eyes -- and now I've got free roundtrip J tickets for Mrs. LawFlyer and me from IAH - Rio de Janeiro for a tropical New Year's Eve!

However, CraigS posted: "I’m sure the lady in the OP situation was just doing what the FA was telling her and didn’t have much choice in the matter either, but everyone seems to want to blame her." Yes, I do blame her for these reasons: (1) she KNEW her size would be a problem, and she didnt' buy two seats; (2) she KNEW she would obviously intrude into someone else's space, but she did nothing to avoid that in advance (like buying an extra seat), leaving it up to her seat-mate on the plane to simply deal with her problem; (3) during the whole debacle, she acted as if she were entitled to hog the entire row, even flashing me a self-satisfied smirk when then FA ordered me to llift the armrest; (4) I am happy to accord sympathy to her condition, and readers will note that I have not ONCE used derogatory language about her -- but only truthful wording -- but this woman had NO regard for anyone else, and this was obvious from her demeanor and speech as well as her refusal to buy two seats.

Followup questions for you die-hard readers:
(1) Was my bounty (the 2 roundtrip J tickets, confirmed seats to Rio over New Year's and free passage back to IAH from CDG) worth the ordeal? Actually, I say YES!

(2) Being constructive, what should we ACTUALLY do next time? C'mon, guys, you KNOW you can't just demand to walk off a 777 when the main door is about to close on an overwater flight from CDG...it's just not that simple, and we all know it, especially when we're parked at a hard-stand on the tarmac being shuttled to the plane from the gate while CDG is under construction...After all this ordeal, I STILL don't know exactly what CO would want me to do the next time.

CALflyboi

There is no rule, CAL or FAA, that says armrests have to be down for take-off/landing. I have raised many an armrest on the aisle seat for a COS. I have even given out 2 extensions to ONE person! Full flight, TPA-EWR, 73-800. I have never felt so sorry for the 2 people next to him, but he was very humble and gracious, even stopping me during boarding to ask if there was an empty seat elsewhere so the 2 seated next to him would be more comfortable. This poor guy was literally talking up half of the aisle. I think that there is a policy about COS, but it is just not enforced. Personally, I think that they should be required to by an extra seat. I would not ask a passenger to raise their armrest so the person next to them (a COS) would be more comfortable. When you are the one trying to deal with this delicate situation, it can be really difficult. And we are not talking about someone 10/20 pounds overweight here. Being 5'9" and 160ish is completely different than 5'9" and 400-450 pounds!

sic incognito

No, it certainly is not. Approximately 5% of all people with serious overweight (BMI > 40) have a medical condition as cause. Further, long standing overweight is highly likely to result in DM (II), which of course is in that case not a contributing factor in aetiology.

jwhite4

It's not a case of the person 'getting away with it'. Rather it's Continental consistently enforcing their policy. I've seen it happen on Airline where a COS is forced to buy an extra ticket on a return flight, and them saying, "But I didn't need to buy one on the way out, why do I need to buy one now?" I can totally agree with that.

If I'm a COS and I'm told on the outbound, well then maybe I decide not to take the trip at all. Some people may not have the money to buy a 2nd seat (I'd also add that if they are denied flying as a COS, they should be able to receive a full refund). However, if you tagged as that coming back, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You may not have the money for the 2nd seat, but you also may not have a place to return to.

Think of it as the COS double jeopardy rule - an airline gets ONE chance to tag you as COS, if they decide not to do it up front, then they've basically lost that right for the remainder of the person's itinerary. It's unfortunate if you get caught up in it, but the blame squarely falls on the first set of checkin/gate agents.

As a compromise, the initial checkin/gate agent should at least have a way to flag you in the computer as a potential COS, and give you notice of that (perhaps a printed receipt or on the boarding pass). You may not necessarily have to buy a 2nd seat on the first flight to become a COS, but at least if you are notified about it before you start flying, you can be prepared for it later on. Maybe this is a better solution, I think it still leaves the passenger at the whim of every different agent they encounter, which is not a fun way to fly.

Jeff

SusanDK

I found this entire story fascinating and commend you, LawFlyer, for the way you handled the situation. I also think that CO compensated you fairly for the appalling way you were handled on the flight.

With regard to your question #1, was it "worth" the ordeal -- well, to me being worth it means you would have accepted the situation had you been told the truth upfront, ie. "here are three free RT J tickets and a refund for today's flight if you'll sit in coach on a full plane next to an extremely obese woman who cannot possibly fit in the seat." I don't think I would have said yes to that. However, I do think your compensation from CO after-the-fact was appropriate.

As for question #2, you handled it as well as could be expected in the situation, taking the FA seat. I doubt I would have thought of that. I would probably have gone to the lavatory as soon as the fasten-seat-belt sign went off and locked myself in there for the duration of the flight.

Susan

CraigS

I would say 2 J tickets (worth about 5K+ each) and the return of 1800.00 (that your company paid for- did you return it to them? - not a bad deal for all you had to put up with....