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Thanks, yet as you know, I'm aware of this thread, and it'll come as no surprise that I do not agree that it's already been satisfactorially addressed.

Dorian, for example, in the next follow up post to the very thread you reference actually commented to Randy what seemingly "illustrates a contradiction to your said goals" and there are many other references, including at least one "formal" announcement of certain cancelled user accounts:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum75/HTML/000017.html

and various threads such as but not limited to this one:

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"...is still is essentially public if you read the threads - just not advertised, and admittedly perhaps in small print, as it perhaps should be!..."

http://www.flyertalk.com/pasttalk/ft.../000330-2.html

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Yet, even if one is to accept this argument, and since Randy effectively makes the rules it is a good idea to do so, this is a rather special case in that it involves a combined "Moderator"/Member! In this case, the FT Commmunity, rightfully IMHO, also asked for some specific action and it was promised that a result would eventually be forthcoming.

Further, the time line herein suggests that the comment SMessier referenced above does not necessarily apply in this case either, since it was made on 3/13/02, and the following post was made by Randy on 3/29/02 after continued questions were raised by members:

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"... it's currently #6 on the list and if you'll be so kind as to wait your turn, I'm sure it will be addressed. And it's not fair to others for you to cut in line. I have repeated several times on this board that I am a fan of the doc's and will try and not let this bias of mine get in the way. Because we're trying to not act like a kangaroo court here (First Monday maybe), I'll close this thread and address it as soon as the other issues in front of it are addressed to members satisfaction...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000055.html

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Having been assured and asked to be patient, is it really too much to expect a brief explanation over six months later?

As an effective principal in this matter, I've followed it with great interest, yet have heard, nor seen, absolutely nothing, either publicly or privately, regarding the promised "outcome" until the surprising announcement late yesterday.

Most importantly, at least to me, is the issue of an incredibly glaring lack of any acknowlegement of any wrongdoing, any apology, or any promise to abide by and to enforce the rules equally to all, including herself!

One may recall this "classic" Samantha post:

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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000031.html

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And this was by no means a one time slip up or a singular event. While I'm loath to list 'em all, there were repeated disparaging and condesending comments and references of this kind, over an interminable length of time - and they were not all directed at me either. Yet I do not wish to rehash all the issues here.

There was no effort, in this notable case, to edit their past remarks, and there was even a stauch and absolute refusal to do so! Ultimately, FT actually had to do the editing themselves, sadly!

Was there any sense of remorse whatsoever exhibited? Well, sadly, not that I ever saw! So what has been learned?

If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be quickly corrected! And please do! I hope I am!

Finally, in any case, the past, is just that - past. I long ago put it behind me. Does Randy deserve the benefit of the doubt, and our trust in "Moderator" selection? Will those appointed work to maintain a flame free, fair, respectful board of contributors that does not tolerate personal insults?

I hope so!

Is the past a guide? I hope not in this case!

It's fair to assume that "Moderator" selection is done only following a rather careful, honest analysis of each applicants track record of posts. Clearly a firm agreement is "understood" if not written, and the rules as defined by the TOS (as well as the kind spirit) of the FT boards will hopefully govern any and all actions concerning posts related to effectively carrying out the difficult and often thankless task of moderation.

Clearly, "Moderator" is a truly special title, in my view, to be bestowed only upon a very select few that show both special interest and uniquely suited personalities. Not me! And surely it is unlikely that Ess/Sam would have been my choice! Yet assuming the minimal conditions addressed above are being meet, I guess we should all perhaps join in supporting her in her efforts!

Have a great weekend all!

-Mark


[This message has been edited by doc (edited 09-13-2002).]

techgirl wrote:
What a great idea.

Doc (and anyone else for that matter),

If you've been waiting for 6 months and still haven't received follow up, perhaps A) you're not going to get it and should decide whether you're going to let it go or just go. B)Take it up with Randy and/or Ess privately.


The long-winded public rehashing and commentary of old posts and actions aren't going to get you what you want. If you didnt get the response you want in private, does anyone really think a public stoning is going to evoke an apology?


It's been apparent from the beginning (at least to me) that Randy is quite forgiving of our transgressions here, and has given second chances for things far worse than calling someone a troll. I for one am grateful for that, even if that means I'm going to have to co-exist with someone who drives me nuts or who I feel has personally "dissed" me. Either we accept his benevolent nature and agree to be civil with those who we have personal issue, or we can leave, or we can continue to elevate the situation until we are possibly asked to leave.

Doc, before I forget, just a note to say I support where you are coming from!!!

Now, the moderator has never done anything to me, however I still find it very hard to believe that one with a past of saying the things that have been said by the moderator, could still be given the authority to play King of the thread. It just doesn't make sense to me.

As for emailman's proposal about being able to say one thing as a member and being held to another standard as a moderator, I don't find that in anyone's best interest.

trojan sey:

arturo sey:



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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

If there was ever an axe that'd been ground to the base of the handle... guys, please, do us all a favor. If you have misgivings, please handle them privately, in Email, with Randy. The last thing we need is one more huge 10 page slag-off. Remember that new people come here every day. They read the boards, they lurk. What better way to turn someone off to the community than ANOTHER flame-fest? Finally, I fully respect everyone's right to express themselves. However, when members get into these little 'shouting matches', they infringe upon the rights of the rest of the community by disrupting the flow of information and ideas. So, while you may be free to express yourself and exercise your rights, you most certainly are not free to stomp all over mine.

Enough with the persecution complex-- Randy has made his decision, let's just move on!

I have no axe to grind, nor am I indulging in any shouting match. You can't have it both ways - by saying that you support everyone's right to express themselves, and then immediately qualifying it with what kind of free support you support. Nor do I see what right of yours I have stomped over.

"You" was in the indefinite, not the specific. As far as self-expression, let me clarify. I support self-expression which is respectful of the rights of others.

WOW, and I thought it got bad on the delta board.....

Anyone for a walk?

arturo suggist thet the modernator or randie git out the chanes and locks fore thes thred.

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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

Randy, to take this topic ever so slightly off course, I would like to refer to your recent post on the following DL board thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../007212-6.html

Last year you made it clear that the major boards will eventually have moderators when I posted a thread on this subject on the DL board. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum21/HTML/003724.html

I have come to the conclusion that you are correct in your approach and would like to offer the following suggestion. Every board has it's own individual personality that has developed over time. Hopefully you will be picking individuals that are active members of each individual board and will respect the makeup and flavor of that board. On the DL board you have individuals like GG, LexPassenger and Bruce Schobel (there are many others) that have made repeated contributions in the past to the overall character and growth of the board. GG & Lex's Beginners' Guide to the Delta Forum is an excellent example.

With that in mind, I hope that when you do make that selection for us, we will have an open minded, intelligent and thoughtful moderator.

Missydarlin, great post.

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Axe to grind? Shouting match? Right to express themselves? Rights stomped over?

Wasn't the flow of information disrupted when we all suffered through the past eruptions?

All I did was pose a few simple honest questions, no? Hopefully, we all have rights here!


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Rehashing? I hope not!

FWIW, IMHO, it's manifestly not about me, nor about her, per se. These are, I felt, relevant questions posed to Randy. Again, isn't it within our rights to politely pose a question in this regard?

Regarding what I might want, I truly have no personal agenda, nor specific wants, at least of which I'm aware!

I do however want what is best for FT and all FT'ers and this surely includes Ess, as well as Randy.

As I'd said, it's over with, as far as I'm concerned. It was over then. I put it behind me long ago. My concern is/was whether others genuinely have, and if Randy perhaps recalls what he had previously remarked. What happened was a real embarassment to FT and I hope that it will not happen again - period.

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Persecution? Complex?

Geeezzz! Did someone mistakenly think that they'd been picked on? All a figment of their imagination, eh? PLEASE!


Having said these things, to be absolutely clear, I have nothing against Ess and wish her the very best!

-Mark