Catman

Several of my Flyertalk friends have asked me "Catman, why are you posting so much less than in the past?"

it's not due to lack of time. It's due to my Personal feeling THat this board has lost it's "heart."

I miss the old days of good natured ribbing and people helping each other and a sense of good well and brother and sister hood here. But it's so way gone now.

What's going on:

*Personal attacks on boards are daily and fast and furious at times (the United thread is a keen example.)
>>And I remember Rudi's good intentioned "an open letter to Catman" thread which became a flaming war that Randy had to shut down. I was really hurt by that.

*Some posts that IMHO are just so unnecessary (I don't even bother with OMNI anymore and other threads like "the Buzz" and even "General Traveltalk" are being filled with non-travel related stuff. Commander Catcop would say "Think before you post... and see if what your posting is really helping the community. SOrry but I frankly don't care about a Free $3.50 pen."

*Misinformation on some threads. I can't tell what's right or wrong anymore. I post "I believe or I think or if someone would correct me."

*The language. I know this is the Internet and virtually anything goes but it shows poor taste to use words like p*#$ed. on threads. It makes us look common I believe to people like those who read the United thread. I don't like the language and neither does Commander Catcop. (YES FQTV he's back!)


*The Trip Reports: I post a few and get no response, so I can go to IGOUGO and at least get a few AA miles. I'm glad QUiet Lion at least gets some feedback

*WIth so much clutter here, I'm getting so little information anymore. And there are few fine posts here (Jon Toner's one about asking ALL of us to think about what we do here -- sorry can't remember the title -- beautiful.)

*WHy bother doing the COmmander Catcop thing if so many of you say "he's so out of control?" I thought he was fun, but you all seem to prefer arturo and some newer members.

But again, the biggest thing is that this Flyertalker is fighting with this one and there's a growing snese of tension and hostility here.

The remark by someone: "the old boy's network:" I don't get it:

*It sounds like some secret political clique? Clique? what cliques on F-T? There are so many everyone's a member of one.

*There are Female FLyertalkers in the "network" FYI: I know about that. I know a lot about what goes on here.

SO...

What I will NOT do is totally quit the boards. THat was stupid and childish of me the last time. But I may simply just fade away if I"m really provoked.

What I WILL DO is help those who I can, continue the friendships and maybe make a few new ones.

But this place has become so cluttered with posts all over the place and so hostile in some places it's not worth my time anymore.

And please do me a favor... If you want to make some snide remarks or attack me... do it by private e-mail. There's as much flaming here as the Wildfires in the Northwest.

[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 08-29-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 08-29-2000).]

Dorian

Catman,

I agree with the majority of what you said. I too have been posting far less (not that I ever posted a lot) than months past.

I believe if there were a measurable: average value of information per post, it would have decreased slowly over the past 6 months...slowly slipping below my value threshold.

In recent weeks I tried to start some interesting topics (in my opinion). A couple in the *A forum regarding management, who is next to enter, etc. A little interest was shown.

Maybe all this is a symptom of popularity of the board? Like when a pop song gets too popular and a quick negativity is spawned against it dropping it off the charts rapidly?

I too have been caught up in the negativity in the past 6 months. I enjoy spirited discussions and even a little tough discussion...but did I go too far? I don't know. I am sure you remember Catman when I asked you directly if I should post an apology on the board? Instead of an apology I started limiting my posts and how often I visit.

Just some ramblings and thoughts....

Dorian




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YogiBear

Catman
I am truely sorry to read how you feel (although I have to agree completely). I do not know you, have never met you, but have joined the F-T community because of you and several others that have posted informative, interesting and humerous tidbits that make our unique lives on the road a little more bearable. I agree completely that the F-T boards have gotten somewhat "common" with the fights, language etc that have come about over the months. Its unfortunite, however as several have written in the past, it is now an unfortunite part of society and the best way to deal with it is to ignore it. The childish behavior will dwindle if it is ignorned. The borish few will go find some other forum to disrupt to get their jollies.

Anyway, you and several others (Premex and rudi comes to mind imediately)have made my 200,000 miles traveled annually more productive (from a mileage standpoint) and certainly more humerous and I hope you reconsider your semi-retirement. Your insight (as well as many others) is greatly appreciated by many of us and I would hate to see Cmd Cat cop retire to a quiet bowl of milk!

Aloha and Mahalo for your insight

eMailman

"when the end of the world does come about, it will undoubtedly be due to bad manners."

Robert Heinlen

nathan detroit

Catman-Mark,know that your friends stand with you, share your concerns, and will do their best to see that what you suggest be done.



And on a personal note, I am with you all the way on the "smilies."



Let us hope and pray that things have improved by the time we do damage to the crab cakes!

CameraGuy

Mark,

YOU are the heart of FT. Since you have curtailed your posting, FT has lost SOME of it's heart. But, FT will continue to have heart until we lose you for good.

Please do not allow that to happen. You are a GREAT person. Please ignore the critisism, it comes from a SMALL and JEALOUS minority.

The Viking

Catman

Even with short time /relatively speaking) on the FT board, I already miss your paw's signature including the occasional claw.

And I do agree, the threads are getting "diluted" with none whatsoever -travel related posts, posts in wrong threads, meaningless nothings being posted just to be able to acquire the FT equivalent of 1K; Evangelist status.

Personal attacks do not belong anywhere in any thread.

Would love to see more posts from you.
Fredrik, aka "The Viking"

Dorian

I believe people are missing the exact nature of Catman's post (unless I am wrong).

It is not just about Catman (though he is a friend of mine)...it is about the FT board.

Go back and read what Catman wrote...it is about the 'heart' of FT.

I want to see posts here that talk about reform and bringing FT back to the way it was last fall. No, I don't want to see (in my own words, other thread) a FT love-in...just back to the way things were.

MY OPINION...

Sincerely,


Dorian

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svpii

Catman,

I've missed your frequent presence here.. And as a relative newbie - only three months - I've already noticed a deterioration in the level of tenor and critical comment - it still exists, certainly - but is increasingly nestled among the trite and the trash.

I think it's a problem of success. This is the best forum and the best collection of personalities, wit, and experience available. There's little we can do to 'legislate' behavior without limiting the very essence that has been appealing to the core of this group and those of us who have found a real sense of community here.

But I do believe - and we talked about this in chatroom last night - that we could all do more to boycott the offensive, devisive, and aggressive posts - just as we do the unimportant, unintelligent, and worthless ones. And yes, I'm including myself in a big way in that admonition.

I suggest that we all refuse to respond to these posts, that we studiously ignore them - pretend they don't exist! Skip over them in an otherwise good thread - ignore threads they start, etc. As a parent, I know that to over-acknowledge outbursts in an errant child is to essentially reward them with your attention.

I understand the difficulty in doing this, and I understand that it doesn't quickly or permanently erradicate the problem. But perhaps it's a small way, using only our own self-discipline, to regain the high standards of tolerance, community, and useful information this board represents.

I, for one, would try any experiment to regain access to the thought leadership of the stewards of our boards (you, among many others) who are quickly retreating!

This is an only a minor idea - But I believe we need some strategy before our frustration exceeds our attraction to this space. I have little ability in my current demanding environment to build new friendships or maintain old ones. This community has come to mean a lot to me, and I am signing on to make any contribution I can to the common good.

Before this gets too sappy - I'm outa here!

LarryU

The phenomenon that we are observing is basically the "Usenetification" of FlyerTalk. I have lurked for MANY years in rec.travel.air and, indeed, only learned about the existence of FT from a thread that tangentially referred to FT last winter. Rec.travel.air has some very meaningful content and some superb contributors but more often it�s a hopeless morass of crossposts, vulgarity and trolls. FT is not nearly so bad but as the number of contributors increase, some small percentage of them will unfortunately exert the same "usenet" effect. This effect, by definition, will be way out of proportion to their numbers. It really doesn't take very many contaminants to render a wine undrinkable. I am most definitely not a proponent of censorship but perhaps FT version 7.0 could design some type of "plonking" feature that would enable us to filter out posts derived from those that we PERSONALLY deem undesirable.

PremEx

Catman, I know how you feel. And all of the above posts reflect the fact that others agree with all or part of what you are feeling.

But what upsets me most is not what you believe FlyerTalk seems to have become, but the fact that whatever it is, clearly hurts you.

Collectively, we are all the "heart" and body of FlyerTalk. And while I admit we go into cardiac arrest now and then, thankfully the thing keep on ticking.

But my Catfriend, you are the "soul" of FlyerTalk, IMHO. And even with a heart steadily pumping away, a body without a soul is not a very fun thing to visit.

Rudi

"" "" "" "" ""

CameraGuy

Premex is 100% correct.

My feeling is that if the respected members of this community "Stand Up" for what is right, we can continue to enjoy the exchange of ideas and information.

Hammertoad

I agree whole-heartedly with Catman and with PremEx. (And in Germany, 2 Marks will get you a dollar )

I, too, have backed way off from posting and reading FT. I think the downhill slide began to pick up speed during the 'conga' days. I've had a bit of a think about it, and have admitted to myself that I was wrong for doing that. If those of us that remember the glory days of FT allow them to remain mere memories, then we haven't served our community very well; and indeed end up contributing to the problem.

My interest in FT thus renewed, I do plan to actively (hopefully constructively) contribute once again. And I'd ask the other lapsed yearlings+ to consider doing the same.

Cheers,

'toad

[This message has been edited by Hammertoad (edited 08-29-2000).]

Catman

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR SUPPORT FIRST OFF!!!!

First off: Rudi: please go to your post and put the smilies back. That was unfair and I'm sorry I hurt you (I can feel the sadness coming from Switzerland.) That's Unfair of me !

I think Nathan's Detroit point is good, just that smilies as separate threads may be . You can say something and then put a smiley afterwards.

Like: Mr. Detroit! What a terrific post and well said. Well Done! (sorry, had to add the smiley)

Just for you Rudi:



(FYI: I had to delete the rest of the smiley line because I "exceeded the maximum # of images allowed! HA HA HA!)

I can't help that I have this PEPSI Coated, Krispy Kreame vision of life and Flyertalk. It's not that way. it takes like Diet PEPSI (BLEH!) and when a friend gets attacked or questioned harshley (ex: Brothers PremEx and Rudi) I get hurt. And I want to stop it.

Or if like Camera Guy gets flamed. Or Nathan Detroit or so many of my friends here. It hurts.

Ok PremEx, I will put some more of my SOUL, cat hair covered and all, here.

I'm not going folks! DOn't worry! Just go easy on the flaming please.

And PremEx, you are not allowed to have a coronary. You have a special favor to do for me someday and you can't do it with a coronaryh.

Have a MEOWY day! I Think I'm going to write some trip reports.




[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 08-29-2000).]