Flyertalk loses it's "Heart"
Aug 30, 2000, 12:13 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Colorado Springs, Co. USA
Posts: 48
The interesting thing with you, Oz, is your unwillingness to change (as if you could stop it from happening!). The 'old boy network exists', but what you don't seem to get is that every one of those members has, to some degree, changed, evolved, and generally become other than what they were when they first posted. Their originality and value on this board comes from that evolution.
A news flash for you: YOU are changing, too--not nearly enough, and in ways that aren't fully visible yet, I think--but you stubbornly hold on to an adolescent notion of authenticity that's really tiresome. You're changing, dude. Go ahead and try not to.
If you want to tell me that's simply my opinion (though you wouldn't word it that way)--well, you'd be wrong. And I don't mean you'd be wrong because others share my opinion. They do, I suspect, but that isn't the issue.
You'd be wrong because you ARE childish. You ARE hypersensitive to criticism and almost fully incapable of allowing that it influences you. THAT IS YOU as you present on this board. There's no opinion about it. Opinions are for ISSUES--things about which there can be some reasonable disagreemnt. Who's debating this? You're ODD (Oppositional/Defiant Disordered) until evidence to the contrary appears.
You won't LEAVE this board that way if you stay around long enough (there were others like you before, young fella), but don't misread that for an invitation to stay.
As it stands, you won't tone things down because you're being TOLD to. Eventually people will stop asking (and stop listening to you), and you'll soon notice yourself just toning it down enough in order to be heard. We'll notice, too. Hard as it seems to imagine, you'll become "normalized" and you'll change. You WILL. Given enough time, there isn't a choice involved.
Unfortunately, right now, you're still at the stage where you feel right at home peeing in the pool. So did I when I was seven.
A news flash for you: YOU are changing, too--not nearly enough, and in ways that aren't fully visible yet, I think--but you stubbornly hold on to an adolescent notion of authenticity that's really tiresome. You're changing, dude. Go ahead and try not to.
If you want to tell me that's simply my opinion (though you wouldn't word it that way)--well, you'd be wrong. And I don't mean you'd be wrong because others share my opinion. They do, I suspect, but that isn't the issue.
You'd be wrong because you ARE childish. You ARE hypersensitive to criticism and almost fully incapable of allowing that it influences you. THAT IS YOU as you present on this board. There's no opinion about it. Opinions are for ISSUES--things about which there can be some reasonable disagreemnt. Who's debating this? You're ODD (Oppositional/Defiant Disordered) until evidence to the contrary appears.
You won't LEAVE this board that way if you stay around long enough (there were others like you before, young fella), but don't misread that for an invitation to stay.
As it stands, you won't tone things down because you're being TOLD to. Eventually people will stop asking (and stop listening to you), and you'll soon notice yourself just toning it down enough in order to be heard. We'll notice, too. Hard as it seems to imagine, you'll become "normalized" and you'll change. You WILL. Given enough time, there isn't a choice involved.
Unfortunately, right now, you're still at the stage where you feel right at home peeing in the pool. So did I when I was seven.
Aug 30, 2000, 12:28 pm
#34
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Programs: Hilton - Diamond, IHG - Platinum
Posts: 1,427
CATMAN, I'm glad we will be hearing a little more purring and meowing from you in the future. I sincerely do understand your comments - although the language has not bothered me, but I can understand how it can be construed as lowering the limits of society to others on this board.
Your comments about missing "the old days of good natured ribbing and people helping each other and a sense of good will and brother and sister hood" are very much on the mark. I do remember some pretty strong ribbing in the past, but it was always presented and accepted as a friendly joking around - never malicious.
I do not agree that it must evolve and this is internet life in the 20th century. The comraderie that was built here can continue and the ignoring of certain topics and threads by those of you whom we have learned to respect will probably suck the life force out of those types of threads and topics.
Mark,if you, and Rudi and PremEx and the other "old timers" - (see judicious use of ribbing the older folks) continue to bless us with your presence in those areas that you feel comfortable, hopefully the painful, disrespectful, incorrect information, etc parts of this fine board, will wither on the vine.
Larry
Your comments about missing "the old days of good natured ribbing and people helping each other and a sense of good will and brother and sister hood" are very much on the mark. I do remember some pretty strong ribbing in the past, but it was always presented and accepted as a friendly joking around - never malicious.
I do not agree that it must evolve and this is internet life in the 20th century. The comraderie that was built here can continue and the ignoring of certain topics and threads by those of you whom we have learned to respect will probably suck the life force out of those types of threads and topics.
Mark,if you, and Rudi and PremEx and the other "old timers" - (see judicious use of ribbing the older folks) continue to bless us with your presence in those areas that you feel comfortable, hopefully the painful, disrespectful, incorrect information, etc parts of this fine board, will wither on the vine.
Larry
Aug 30, 2000, 12:38 pm
#36
Commander Catcop
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 10,259
Premex is correct. We should not limit how much people can post.
IMHO: What we can do is ignore the miscellanous stuff and focused on the sizzling, tasty New York Strip on the boards.
(Medium well, thank you!)
Again, thanks to those of you who have offered support. I will keep on purring.
IMHO: What we can do is ignore the miscellanous stuff and focused on the sizzling, tasty New York Strip on the boards.
(Medium well, thank you!)
Again, thanks to those of you who have offered support. I will keep on purring.
Aug 30, 2000, 12:49 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
Originally posted by Catman:
I will keep on purring.
I will keep on purring.
------------------
Travel is a powerful antidote to contemporary American arrogance.
Aug 30, 2000, 1:53 pm
#38
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 613
I was on FlyerTalk Live chat earlier today, and some of the other chatters commented on how I haven't been to FT much lately. Not on chat, not on the boards.
Then I thought about it. Subconsiously, I slowly drifted away from this place. I am busy and have always been busy, like all of you, but I always managed to find time for FT. After work when tired, I would log in and share opinions with likeminded folk. I would learn to multitask and be able to chat on FlyerTalk Live while doing e-mail, work documents, talking on the phone, or a multitude of other things.
But, now that I think about it, FlyerTalk hasn't been very warm lately. I've found little reason to go out of my way to see what was going on here. Sure, every few days, when I had a free moment, I would stop by, but I haven't been actively visiting here.
Since I have only been here six-months, I am by no means an oldtimer. Yet in my six-months I have weathered many storms with fellow FTers. There have been at least two noteable periods of tension during my time here. But I was confident that they would quickly blow over, and they did. But I don't think what we are experiencing right now is simply a storm that will disappear. This is FlyerTalk. Here. Now. Nothing is going to change until we make it change.
What can we do to change? I don't know. I don't. You can all discuss that. I'll be happy to offer some suggestions. I don't know how much FlyerTalk can do. The only big thing I can think of is dumping the post counter. Other than that, the community is going to have to develop some methods to change.
A tip to all of you, that I have been using. If you have a problem with a FTer, NEVER read his or her posts. Just don't. If they started a topic, skip over it. If they respond, scroll down past it. If his or her comment sparks an arguement, click the back button. Don't respond. I feel that it is sad that I have to avoid the posts of certain FTers, but it keeps me from attacking back worthlessly. A tip my mom taught me: You can't change anyone. Everyone has their opinions, and trying to argue will only get you more aggravating.
Like Catman, I'm not going to totally disappear, but, unfortunately, I will be inactively following the boards.
BB
Then I thought about it. Subconsiously, I slowly drifted away from this place. I am busy and have always been busy, like all of you, but I always managed to find time for FT. After work when tired, I would log in and share opinions with likeminded folk. I would learn to multitask and be able to chat on FlyerTalk Live while doing e-mail, work documents, talking on the phone, or a multitude of other things.
But, now that I think about it, FlyerTalk hasn't been very warm lately. I've found little reason to go out of my way to see what was going on here. Sure, every few days, when I had a free moment, I would stop by, but I haven't been actively visiting here.
Since I have only been here six-months, I am by no means an oldtimer. Yet in my six-months I have weathered many storms with fellow FTers. There have been at least two noteable periods of tension during my time here. But I was confident that they would quickly blow over, and they did. But I don't think what we are experiencing right now is simply a storm that will disappear. This is FlyerTalk. Here. Now. Nothing is going to change until we make it change.
What can we do to change? I don't know. I don't. You can all discuss that. I'll be happy to offer some suggestions. I don't know how much FlyerTalk can do. The only big thing I can think of is dumping the post counter. Other than that, the community is going to have to develop some methods to change.
A tip to all of you, that I have been using. If you have a problem with a FTer, NEVER read his or her posts. Just don't. If they started a topic, skip over it. If they respond, scroll down past it. If his or her comment sparks an arguement, click the back button. Don't respond. I feel that it is sad that I have to avoid the posts of certain FTers, but it keeps me from attacking back worthlessly. A tip my mom taught me: You can't change anyone. Everyone has their opinions, and trying to argue will only get you more aggravating.
Like Catman, I'm not going to totally disappear, but, unfortunately, I will be inactively following the boards.
BB
Aug 30, 2000, 2:03 pm
#39
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York
Posts: 2,115
First off, I don't care for censorship.
I understand that Randy has a need to do things about particularily offensive posts, it is after all his web site.
I too, don't like the idea of limiting posts. Besides, people could have a 2nd or 3rd username to get around this.
All of that said, Flyertalk is not the same place it was 2 years ago. It isnt the same place it was 1 year ago, or 6 months ago. And, it won't be the same place 6 months from now. That's just a fact of loife, especially on the Internet. New people will join, old friends will leave. The cast of characters will change over time.
Has the volume increased? Yes, us old-timers should take that as a compliment, it shows we helped create a vibrant place 2 summers ago.
Has the quality of posts gone down?
This is difficult to quantify. I'll try to do, in my case(you'll all have to do this for yourself).
1) Do I see fewer useful posts then I did 2 years ago? Yes and No. No, I don't think there are fewer post that a useful to a novice FF. However, 2 year later, I'm no longer a novice, my level of knowledge about FF/FG programs is much higher. So I learn less because I now know more. This isn't really a Flyertalk issue, but a Boomer issue.
2) Is there more flamming going on?
Yes(I havent counted, but it just seems to be true). This may simply be a factor of more people. More people lead to more disagreements. Would I like to see a more civil approach by many people here? YES.
Without naming names, I remember back in 1998, a certain someone posting on Flyertalk that most people found a pain in the rear. What did we do, we stopped responding to that person's posts(kind of the silent treatment) Did it work? For the most part, YES. How was this silent treatment boycott organized, a few emails between flyertalkers.
So if you don't like what someone is posting, ignore them. There's enough on flyertalk to read for everyone.
3) Are there more silly/nonsense posts?
Sure, but there are alot more posts, so the silly stuff increases too. Personally, I think the spam forum is full of some of the more stupid info I can imagine. Hey I found a great way to get 5 miles(a dime) big deal.
However, that's my opinion, some of you probably like the spam forum and find it useful, more power to you.
4) Are there some people on Flyertalk I don't like? Sure, and I'm sure there are just as many that don't like me. I've learned in life, that everyone doesn't like everyone else. Flyertalk is not different.
I respect that everyone has the same right as I do, to post here, we are all guests of Randy(customers perhaps would be a better word). I respect your right to speak your mind, its what gives me the right to speak mine.
5)Are there clique's or an "old-boys-network" on Flyertalk. Sure there are. Don't kid yourself. Some people here, for whatever reason, are looked at differently than others. Personally, I think the "cliques" are more by Airline/Hotel than anything. This makes sense to me, the CO/NW/HP folks have something in common they fly the same airlines. The StarAlliance folks likewise have the same bond. This leads to more interaction and those closeness. I couldn't tell you which flyertalkers post in US Airways forum, I don't read that forum. I don't fly them, so my time wouldn't be well spent reading it.
Others groups here are geographic. Here in the NYC area we have a large number of Flyertalkers. We meet fairly regularily as friends, not as flyertalkers. In fact I think the first ever flyertalk meet, might have been NJDavid, Catman and myself back in 1998. Are the oldtimer's treated differently then the new folks? Probably. The oldtimers know more about flyertalk and what has been posted before. That doesn't mean newbies are welcome, we were all new to flyertalk at one point.
6) Do I sometimes get upset that nobody responds to one of my posts? Sure, sometimes I might post something that I'm sure everyone will be interested in, and alas many people aren't. Thats ok. This isn't a posting contest. Catman, who cares how many people comment on one of your trip reports? It doesn't mean it wasnt a good trip report. Maybe people just didnt have anything constructive to say. Catman, I was surprised that only 24 flyertalkers voted in the talkies. Was I disappointed? a little, I really thought people would look forward to having a voice. Most did not, thats fine. It doesn't say anything except they werent interested. Of course, when I was tabulating the votes I was kind of glad, 400 people didnt vote
So, has the quality of Flyertalk gone down?
Yes and No.
Is flyertalk still worth my time?
Yes.
Is flyertalk the central existence of my life?
No, never has been, never will be.
Will I be a flyertalker forever?
Maybe. As long as I get value in excess of my time, I'll be here.
My best suggestion to Catman and everyone else? Treat Flyertalk for what it is, a place to share ideas and comments, no more , no less. We aren't talking about world peace here, we're talking about miles for heaven's sake. This isn't life and death, lets not treat it that way.
I understand that Randy has a need to do things about particularily offensive posts, it is after all his web site.
I too, don't like the idea of limiting posts. Besides, people could have a 2nd or 3rd username to get around this.
All of that said, Flyertalk is not the same place it was 2 years ago. It isnt the same place it was 1 year ago, or 6 months ago. And, it won't be the same place 6 months from now. That's just a fact of loife, especially on the Internet. New people will join, old friends will leave. The cast of characters will change over time.
Has the volume increased? Yes, us old-timers should take that as a compliment, it shows we helped create a vibrant place 2 summers ago.
Has the quality of posts gone down?
This is difficult to quantify. I'll try to do, in my case(you'll all have to do this for yourself).
1) Do I see fewer useful posts then I did 2 years ago? Yes and No. No, I don't think there are fewer post that a useful to a novice FF. However, 2 year later, I'm no longer a novice, my level of knowledge about FF/FG programs is much higher. So I learn less because I now know more. This isn't really a Flyertalk issue, but a Boomer issue.
2) Is there more flamming going on?
Yes(I havent counted, but it just seems to be true). This may simply be a factor of more people. More people lead to more disagreements. Would I like to see a more civil approach by many people here? YES.
Without naming names, I remember back in 1998, a certain someone posting on Flyertalk that most people found a pain in the rear. What did we do, we stopped responding to that person's posts(kind of the silent treatment) Did it work? For the most part, YES. How was this silent treatment boycott organized, a few emails between flyertalkers.
So if you don't like what someone is posting, ignore them. There's enough on flyertalk to read for everyone.
3) Are there more silly/nonsense posts?
Sure, but there are alot more posts, so the silly stuff increases too. Personally, I think the spam forum is full of some of the more stupid info I can imagine. Hey I found a great way to get 5 miles(a dime) big deal.
However, that's my opinion, some of you probably like the spam forum and find it useful, more power to you.
4) Are there some people on Flyertalk I don't like? Sure, and I'm sure there are just as many that don't like me. I've learned in life, that everyone doesn't like everyone else. Flyertalk is not different.
I respect that everyone has the same right as I do, to post here, we are all guests of Randy(customers perhaps would be a better word). I respect your right to speak your mind, its what gives me the right to speak mine.
5)Are there clique's or an "old-boys-network" on Flyertalk. Sure there are. Don't kid yourself. Some people here, for whatever reason, are looked at differently than others. Personally, I think the "cliques" are more by Airline/Hotel than anything. This makes sense to me, the CO/NW/HP folks have something in common they fly the same airlines. The StarAlliance folks likewise have the same bond. This leads to more interaction and those closeness. I couldn't tell you which flyertalkers post in US Airways forum, I don't read that forum. I don't fly them, so my time wouldn't be well spent reading it.
Others groups here are geographic. Here in the NYC area we have a large number of Flyertalkers. We meet fairly regularily as friends, not as flyertalkers. In fact I think the first ever flyertalk meet, might have been NJDavid, Catman and myself back in 1998. Are the oldtimer's treated differently then the new folks? Probably. The oldtimers know more about flyertalk and what has been posted before. That doesn't mean newbies are welcome, we were all new to flyertalk at one point.
6) Do I sometimes get upset that nobody responds to one of my posts? Sure, sometimes I might post something that I'm sure everyone will be interested in, and alas many people aren't. Thats ok. This isn't a posting contest. Catman, who cares how many people comment on one of your trip reports? It doesn't mean it wasnt a good trip report. Maybe people just didnt have anything constructive to say. Catman, I was surprised that only 24 flyertalkers voted in the talkies. Was I disappointed? a little, I really thought people would look forward to having a voice. Most did not, thats fine. It doesn't say anything except they werent interested. Of course, when I was tabulating the votes I was kind of glad, 400 people didnt vote
So, has the quality of Flyertalk gone down?
Yes and No.
Is flyertalk still worth my time?
Yes.
Is flyertalk the central existence of my life?
No, never has been, never will be.
Will I be a flyertalker forever?
Maybe. As long as I get value in excess of my time, I'll be here.
My best suggestion to Catman and everyone else? Treat Flyertalk for what it is, a place to share ideas and comments, no more , no less. We aren't talking about world peace here, we're talking about miles for heaven's sake. This isn't life and death, lets not treat it that way.
Aug 30, 2000, 4:32 pm
#40
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Between SNA and ONT
Posts: 1,486
Well said, Boomer. All we can do is the best we can, and that means each of us who cares should be careful of how we act, and those who don't care obviously won't. If we offend someone with joking around or whatever, well, straighten it out and apologize if necessary.
This board is not anywhere close to some of the others I've been around on the Net. And the community aspect of FT is stronger than probably any discussion group I've seen.
Yes, there are cliques, but who cares? Most of the people who might be characterized as in a clique are longtime FTers, and if they don't treat an "outsider" with respect, then they don't have any room to complain about the deterioration of FT. That said, I can't think of any longtime FTer who has been intentionally rude to me. But does that mean that other relatively new FT feel the same way? Of course not.
What I think is a bigger problem is how newbies are treated. I'm not talking about those who pop up only on the Coupon Connection asking for upgrades, but rather those who post for advice and happen to ask a question that has been previously discussed. All too often, the answer is "Do a search." Well, that's fine, but newbies may not know about it. We can complain that they should try to familiarize themselves with the board, but my opinion is if someone suggests doing a search that he or she also should attempt to answer the question. Besides, plenty of established FTers, myself included, ask questions that have been previously discusses, and without getting rebuked.
We should all try to be nice to each other, but we should try extra hard to be nice to those who don't know us.
This board is not anywhere close to some of the others I've been around on the Net. And the community aspect of FT is stronger than probably any discussion group I've seen.
Yes, there are cliques, but who cares? Most of the people who might be characterized as in a clique are longtime FTers, and if they don't treat an "outsider" with respect, then they don't have any room to complain about the deterioration of FT. That said, I can't think of any longtime FTer who has been intentionally rude to me. But does that mean that other relatively new FT feel the same way? Of course not.
What I think is a bigger problem is how newbies are treated. I'm not talking about those who pop up only on the Coupon Connection asking for upgrades, but rather those who post for advice and happen to ask a question that has been previously discussed. All too often, the answer is "Do a search." Well, that's fine, but newbies may not know about it. We can complain that they should try to familiarize themselves with the board, but my opinion is if someone suggests doing a search that he or she also should attempt to answer the question. Besides, plenty of established FTers, myself included, ask questions that have been previously discusses, and without getting rebuked.
We should all try to be nice to each other, but we should try extra hard to be nice to those who don't know us.
Aug 30, 2000, 4:34 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: IAD
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 27,067
BTW the post by Merry which I am referring to is: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000302.html
This was around the time when there was another round of personal attacks (by anonymous handles of existing FTers) and around the time I quit the boards for several months.
This was around the time when there was another round of personal attacks (by anonymous handles of existing FTers) and around the time I quit the boards for several months.
Aug 31, 2000, 7:03 am
#42
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
PG: Thanks for giving me the opportunity. I have said it before and I say it again...
We have so much noise here now, that even the occassional pearl of information gets lost or ignored. I think we were so much better off before we had endless threads about fares; community; parties; schedules; general service issues; air accidents; is one airline better than another airline etc. etc. etc.
All the noise in the background detracts from the origional purpose and value of this forum. Last time I mention this, most replies thought that the range of topics covered was a good thing. The general thought seemed to be, don't look at a forum if you are not interested in that topic, but inevertably this becomes harder and harder. If non-FFP related topics are allowed in one forum, some posters will post similar things in another forum and then people reply and so on and so on.
Once the value has gone - and the value used to be optimizing FFP's - the effort to reward ratio becomes to great for those with a genuine interest and they go away.
Lot's of people have gone away, my friend Catman is the latest example.
The sad fact is that the people who go away (with some exceptions) are the people with the most useful contributions, because they are here for the real puropse of this board.
Perhaps everything that can be said about FFP's has been said, and we have to find other ways to fill our time on this board.
Perhaps adding more and more features and forums is not the best solution, but perhaps the needs of advertisers and their need for an ever increasing number of posters and thus irrelevant threads will prevail?
But one thing is for sure, things will evolve. Sites like the excellent 'Mileage Workshop' (and many others) have already started to fill the gap left by this site loosing its way. If we carry-on along this path, it will not be very long before all the 'useful' information is somewhere else and all we are left with here is a site which has forgotten its purpose.
Nick
PS: Nobody bother to tell me how guilt I am of irrelevant posts (this is a prime example), I already appreciate the irony!
We have so much noise here now, that even the occassional pearl of information gets lost or ignored. I think we were so much better off before we had endless threads about fares; community; parties; schedules; general service issues; air accidents; is one airline better than another airline etc. etc. etc.
All the noise in the background detracts from the origional purpose and value of this forum. Last time I mention this, most replies thought that the range of topics covered was a good thing. The general thought seemed to be, don't look at a forum if you are not interested in that topic, but inevertably this becomes harder and harder. If non-FFP related topics are allowed in one forum, some posters will post similar things in another forum and then people reply and so on and so on.
Once the value has gone - and the value used to be optimizing FFP's - the effort to reward ratio becomes to great for those with a genuine interest and they go away.
Lot's of people have gone away, my friend Catman is the latest example.
The sad fact is that the people who go away (with some exceptions) are the people with the most useful contributions, because they are here for the real puropse of this board.
Perhaps everything that can be said about FFP's has been said, and we have to find other ways to fill our time on this board.
Perhaps adding more and more features and forums is not the best solution, but perhaps the needs of advertisers and their need for an ever increasing number of posters and thus irrelevant threads will prevail?
But one thing is for sure, things will evolve. Sites like the excellent 'Mileage Workshop' (and many others) have already started to fill the gap left by this site loosing its way. If we carry-on along this path, it will not be very long before all the 'useful' information is somewhere else and all we are left with here is a site which has forgotten its purpose.
Nick
PS: Nobody bother to tell me how guilt I am of irrelevant posts (this is a prime example), I already appreciate the irony!
Aug 31, 2000, 10:40 am
#44
Flyertalk Evangelist and Moderator: Coupon Connection and Travel Products
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milton, GA USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum Elite, Hyatt Discoverist, Radisson Elite
Posts: 19,045
Catman,
Thanks for stepping forward and starting this great thread.... and I appreciate your comments.
I am a relative newcomer to this board and I can tell you I am very "Posting Shy" right now. It seems like the very first response new people get now is "DO A SEARCH". Well, if you have been on this board for years, you might know all the threads by heart and where to find them... but for us newbies... it is not that easy. And I have to admit the search feature here leaves much to be desired. I am guessing the impatience is due to the fact that the "old timers" know where everything is... or are experts when it comes to frequent flier programs.
It might be valuable to step back and remember what it was like when you were a newbie to this board.
I will be the first to admit I have probably asked STUPID questions (to the frequent flier) and questions that would have been answered if I took the painful track of searching the threads. But I can also say, there are new people that bring different perspectives that may not have posted to those original threads.
I will admit I am addicted to this website. And I have made some great "cyber" friends. That is what keeps bringing me back.
But, I do have to agree that we can do something to make this community inviting and informative.
1. If there is a posting we do not like, just skip it.
2. If we feel a need to respond, try to refraim from personal attacks. Realizing, if you respond personally you can expect the original poster to do the same.
3. We need to eliminate the posts that only have a smiley, frown, or another emoticon. What value is that adding? Is there a contest for the most posts?
4. We can all provide private email addresses so people can choose to email us personally vs posting for all the world to see. (I have emailed people frequently on here vs placing a post.) If you feel a need to flame me, my email address is [email protected].
5. We can step back and review our responses before clicking on "Submit Reply". Would I be offended if someone responded to one of my posts that way? If the answer is yes or maybe, it may be appropriate to rethink the reply.
6. It may be valuable for some of the "experienced" board members to work with Randy and his staff on rewriting the FAQ's. I believe those FAQ's are pretty generic and do not capture the true intent of the board. They should also cover the proper behavior we want to see on the board. Then we should require every person to read them and acknowledge them before remaining or becoming a member of the board.
I do not believe FT has lost its heart yet, but I do believe there are signs of a stroke or heart attack. With better exercise, we can regain our community... and better fit our bodies into those tiny airline seats! (I will refraim from inserting a smiley here)
William
Thanks for stepping forward and starting this great thread.... and I appreciate your comments.
I am a relative newcomer to this board and I can tell you I am very "Posting Shy" right now. It seems like the very first response new people get now is "DO A SEARCH". Well, if you have been on this board for years, you might know all the threads by heart and where to find them... but for us newbies... it is not that easy. And I have to admit the search feature here leaves much to be desired. I am guessing the impatience is due to the fact that the "old timers" know where everything is... or are experts when it comes to frequent flier programs.
It might be valuable to step back and remember what it was like when you were a newbie to this board.
I will be the first to admit I have probably asked STUPID questions (to the frequent flier) and questions that would have been answered if I took the painful track of searching the threads. But I can also say, there are new people that bring different perspectives that may not have posted to those original threads.
I will admit I am addicted to this website. And I have made some great "cyber" friends. That is what keeps bringing me back.
But, I do have to agree that we can do something to make this community inviting and informative.
1. If there is a posting we do not like, just skip it.
2. If we feel a need to respond, try to refraim from personal attacks. Realizing, if you respond personally you can expect the original poster to do the same.
3. We need to eliminate the posts that only have a smiley, frown, or another emoticon. What value is that adding? Is there a contest for the most posts?
4. We can all provide private email addresses so people can choose to email us personally vs posting for all the world to see. (I have emailed people frequently on here vs placing a post.) If you feel a need to flame me, my email address is [email protected].
5. We can step back and review our responses before clicking on "Submit Reply". Would I be offended if someone responded to one of my posts that way? If the answer is yes or maybe, it may be appropriate to rethink the reply.
6. It may be valuable for some of the "experienced" board members to work with Randy and his staff on rewriting the FAQ's. I believe those FAQ's are pretty generic and do not capture the true intent of the board. They should also cover the proper behavior we want to see on the board. Then we should require every person to read them and acknowledge them before remaining or becoming a member of the board.
I do not believe FT has lost its heart yet, but I do believe there are signs of a stroke or heart attack. With better exercise, we can regain our community... and better fit our bodies into those tiny airline seats! (I will refraim from inserting a smiley here)
William
Aug 31, 2000, 1:18 pm
#45
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AUS
Programs: DL Flying Colonel
Posts: 4,023
I just read the thread with Nick's comment about how the board used to be and how it is now (at the time of his posting.) I found the history to be most interesting. I agree with most of it, however, I feel that posting my complaint I wrote to DL would be helpful for anyone that was going to write a complaint to DL. I expect to get mileage out of the complaint as compensation for being ABUSED by ASA. If other people posted their complaint letters and we compared the letters to compensation, we all would perhaps be able to write better letters and increase our compensation, while at the same time helping the airlines understand their need to improve.
As far as people not being nice, I find the pot calls the kettle black on this one. We are all guilty to some degree. The question really remains in Randy's park, it is his board, what does he want this board to be, a community or a FF mileage advisor site? Randy can either direct the path the board takes or let the forces of the web determine how it develops. To me, however it goes it goes. If it gets to be too much (as it has in the past from time to time) I may move on, I may come back, it all depends what father time brings to the screen.
As far as people not being nice, I find the pot calls the kettle black on this one. We are all guilty to some degree. The question really remains in Randy's park, it is his board, what does he want this board to be, a community or a FF mileage advisor site? Randy can either direct the path the board takes or let the forces of the web determine how it develops. To me, however it goes it goes. If it gets to be too much (as it has in the past from time to time) I may move on, I may come back, it all depends what father time brings to the screen.