moondog

What's your point?

jiejie

The issue is that the NY Consulate may not accept your application. The Chinese are much stricter now on staying within geographic assignments for your residence state; a decade ago they didn't care.

If you use Allied, please report back on results and what you thought of their service/responsiveness, etc. The market could use cheaper visa agent alternatives. Somehow they all seem to have colluded or signaled and put the typical price up to $89-99 per passport. If an agent can break ranks (especially one that can service most or all geographic regions) and do the same job for less, what's not to like?

painintheuk

I have looked back a little bit in this thread and there is some discussion of L visa vs. M visa (which seems to be used as a proxy for 'business'), but I have a question about M vs. Z.

I have a Z visa for teaching at a University here in China. It is not full time, but goes throughout the year and I am back and forth a couple of times each year. The university mostly deals with all the details.

A colleague is in a slightly different situation, but has been messed around a little and is concerned about the difference between the M and Z. One person in HR actually said to just get a tourist visa and he'd be fine - seems like a BAD idea! He is not eligible to be hired directly by the university, but is being hired by a WFOE which then contracts with the university. He has been told that an M visa is appropriate, but after the previous crazy suggestion is a bit concerned that it is OK instead of getting a Z.

He would only be here for a couple of courses and paid by the WFOE. Is an M visa sufficient? What are the 'functional' differences between the two?

Thanks

Dr. PITUK

moondog

If his company can make things work with M, he should get M; full stop.

jiejie

Functional difference? The Z allows him to work legally in China, the M does not. With the Z visa you get a proper Residence Permit, Work Permit or Foreign Experts Certificate, and you pay Individual Income Tax and since 2013, also pay into the social benefit funds--as does the employer. With the M visa, you do not pay any of this. For this reason, of course many foreigners would love to work on M's which of course, is completely opposite the Chinese Labor and Tax authorities position--and now Immigration position as well. From the employer's perspective, it's a lot of hassle to do all the paperwork necessary to set a foreigner up legally and it's expensive since the employer is the one having to pay a big chunk of the benefits funds. Very few employers would want to go to this trouble for a part-time and/or short term foreigner, not enough cost-benefit advantage. Which is why many of the dodgier employers, or those who cannot get permission to hire a foreigner or have exceeded their quota for foreign hires, or where the foreigner doesn't have proper credentials, try to have one work on an incorrect visa category. Or in this case, contract with a commercial (I assume) venture to officially sponsor the visa.

Up until a few years ago, it used to be easier to work on an M (then it was an F "business" visa) for long stretches at a time, but the number of people who are currently able to structure their work and payment without a proper Z visa, and stay under radar without being caught, has dwindled to a very small number. Also remember that a non-moving target (i.e. in a classroom) is easier to spot than a moving target such as a businessperson going in and out of China frequently and traveling around within China--it's just easier to structure and disguise the latter as somebody on "business visits" rather than resident and "working" in China...though even that's not foolproof anymore.

I do find this proposed setup a big red flag, as the university is thus getting benefit of the foreigner without taking on any risk of being fined if the game is found out--the WFOE is taking on the risk but maybe they are well-connected, not worried, have another agenda, etc. There are other issues involved with how work terms, payment flows, etc would happen when there's a middleman between the worker and actual employer rather than a direct contractual relationship. Your friend would have zero legal protections in China, not even a guarantee that he would actually end up being paid. Ultimately, it comes down to how much trust does have? We don't know enough about the WFOE (or University) to know if one or both are local Power Players and whether the local/provincial authorities will lay off even if they figure out what's up.

In 2016, I personally wouldn't put myself in this situation in China, not under the current climate. But your friend will have to evaluate the specifics of the offer and his personal situation and then decide whether to gamble or not. The tourist L visa route is definitely a non-starter and that recommendation by HR was

889

FreeChinaVisa in San Francisco is still pretty cheap, with a $20 service fee plus mailing, but they're now strict about only handling applicants in the consulate's jurisdiction, and want a driver's license copy or such as proof.

I think the other agencies increased their fees when visas went to ten years, presumably on the expectation of reduced turnover.

painintheuk

Thanks moondog and jiejie. I'll pass the information on.

Dr. PITUK

televisor

Back to the topic of British people applying for Chinese tourist Visas outside of the UK: I was given the option of a single or double entry Visa at the SF consulate: they are charging me $30 for the single entry. (They said they don't do the reciprocal 2-year Visa, but they also aren't charging me the reciprocal $120++ fee.) Pretty much as expected.

boxo

I didn't see an answer to this question. I plan to drop off in San Francisco Wednesday and pick up next week. For example, if my slip says Monday, can I pick up Tuesday or Wednesday? I assume so, but I'd like to find out what the policy is.

Also, in general, does the drop off day count as the first of four business/processing days?

TIA.

moondog

I've picked up visas a week after the date written on the slip, and have never had any problems.

I'm not sure whether or not the drop off day counts as a processing day, but it's pretty common to receive faster than promised processing.

milepig

At least in our case they told us what day to return. Dropped off on Monday and we were told they'd be ready on Friday.

televisor

Yes, I did that. I applied on Wednesday, was told collection was from Monday, and actually collected on Tuesday. No one cared.

At the SF consulate: beware that the queues can be bad. If you arrive at 8am you'll maybe be the 15th person into the building when doors open (at 9am): this means the wait for both collection and application is quite short, maybe 10 minutes until you get to the window. If you arrive at 9am, you'll be at the back of a line that seems to be 100 people or more.

If you arrive at 1:30pm: the wait for applications is HUGE (the entire waiting room was full, perhaps 40-50 people, maybe more), the wait for collecting Visas was only 20 minutes.

(At 1:30pm they seemed to be processing applications with waiting number A160, just to give you an idea of how quickly/slowly they process people.)

I'd seriously consider going through a Visa agency, but they are expensive (and I wanted to ask the consulate about the reciprocal Visas, hence no agency for me).

milepig

We just went through this at Chicago.

The office opens at 9:00, but they let people in at 8:30, and the building guard downstairs won't let people up until then.

We arrived at 8:50 and received number 16 and were out of there by 9:25. We sat next someone who'd arrived at 8:30, she had number three and was called by 9:05. In the end, we were both there for 35 minutes. People arriving as we were leaving at 9:25 found a much fuller room and I'm sure a longer wait. This was a Monday, which I've read is their busy day.

It seems to be all over the place, a friend just went midday in LA and was in and out in 10 minutes.

In terms of using an agency, for us it wasn't really the time we spent waiting, and the agency seemed to add a layer of complexity in terms of getting the paperwork and passport to them, then getting it back, etc. Just walking in wasn't much of an issue, but we live like 4 blocks away from the Chicago office.

Be ready for line jumpers. The person with #15 was called and went up, as he was finishing the called our #16 and someone who'd just walked in went up to the window before we could get there. There was no check that people actually had the numbers they were calling.

aztimm

And to answer my own question...it wasn't an issue at all. I dropped off on a Friday, and picked up 2 weeks later, and the agent didn't really care.

I'm sure glad I was able to use the Houston consulate. For both dropoff and pickup I arrived around 10am.
Dropoff took maybe 45 min waiting in line.
Pickup there was no line, and I walked right up to the cashier, gave her my credit card, signed the slip, she gave me my passport, and I was back out the door within 5 minutes.

boxo

I found the answer on the San Francisco Consulate's FAQ page. http://www.chinaconsulatesf.org/eng/lszj/zgqz/#faq

7. How long does it take to get a visa after my application?

Answer: If you have submitted all documents required, it normally takes 4 business days (it varies case by case). If you have a special or emergency situation, you may request express (2 or 3 business days) or rush service (within 24 hours) with an additional fee. Approval for such services may and may not be provided by the Chinese Consulates General.

Applicants should come to get the visas on time. Visas not taken away after 90 days from the day it should be taken away will be deemed abandoned.