More flights [ex-China to N America and Europe]
May 31, 2023, 8:18 am
#17
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Jun 1, 2023, 8:01 pm
#18
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New May 2023 US-China flights avoid Russian airspace
https://www.reuters.com/world/chines...ts-2023-06-01/
Older flights prior to March 2022 still use Russian airspace. I guess this is best
compromise for China & USA.
Older flights prior to March 2022 still use Russian airspace. I guess this is best
compromise for China & USA.
Jun 1, 2023, 8:52 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2021
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https://www.reuters.com/world/chines...ts-2023-06-01/
Older flights prior to March 2022 still use Russian airspace. I guess this is best
compromise for China & USA.
Older flights prior to March 2022 still use Russian airspace. I guess this is best
compromise for China & USA.
Well, if I was negotiating, I would propose that no new frequencies can overfly Russia, but existing Russia overflight frequencies are grandfathered. Since there's only 8x weekly Chinese flights right now (and I think only 5x of them overfly Russia regularly), it'll be a relatively small number of exceptions once flights ramp up, so US airlines would be affected minimally in the long run. And Chinese airlines won't be forced to change what they're currently doing, since only new frequencies are affected.
I think something like this is actually in the "zone of possible agreement" for both sides. However, I don't see an agreement being reached anytime soon due to the current state of US-China relations.
I think something like this is actually in the "zone of possible agreement" for both sides. However, I don't see an agreement being reached anytime soon due to the current state of US-China relations.
Jun 1, 2023, 9:09 pm
#20
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Location: Shanghai
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CAAC would have given up Russian overflights on existing routes. The new PVG-LAX and PEK-JFK flights (once a week, each) will not reduce fares, and nobody cares about the third LAX-XMN. We need to raise the frequency cap back up to ~50 from each side. I don't care if AA and DL don't have planes to fly them. The Chinese airlines do, and their presence will save us all a lot of money!
Jun 2, 2023, 11:49 am
#22
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More flights?
Air China: Starting from May 27, Air China will operate flight CA981 from Beijing to New York every Saturday, and flight CA982 from New York to Beijing every Sunday.China Eastern Airlines: Beginning on May 20, China Eastern Airlines will offer flight MU583 from Shanghai to Los Angeles every Saturday, and flight MU586 from Los Angeles to Shanghai every Sunday.
China Southern Airlines: From May 29, China Southern Airlines will operate flight CZ327 from Guangzhou to Los Angeles every Monday, and flight CZ328 from Los Angeles to Guangzhou every Tuesday.
Xiamen Airlines: Starting May 30, Xiamen Airlines will run flight MF829 from Xiamen to Los Angeles every Tuesday, and flight MF830 from Los Angeles to Xiamen every Wednesday.
https://www.shine.cn/news/nation/2305208093/
Air China: Starting from May 27, Air China will operate flight CA981 from Beijing to New York every Saturday, and flight CA982 from New York to Beijing every Sunday.China Eastern Airlines: Beginning on May 20, China Eastern Airlines will offer flight MU583 from Shanghai to Los Angeles every Saturday, and flight MU586 from Los Angeles to Shanghai every Sunday.
China Southern Airlines: From May 29, China Southern Airlines will operate flight CZ327 from Guangzhou to Los Angeles every Monday, and flight CZ328 from Los Angeles to Guangzhou every Tuesday.
Xiamen Airlines: Starting May 30, Xiamen Airlines will run flight MF829 from Xiamen to Los Angeles every Tuesday, and flight MF830 from Los Angeles to Xiamen every Wednesday.
https://www.shine.cn/news/nation/2305208093/
I find it hard to believe that this flight actually requires 16.5 hours en route. If so, that means a 3a arrival is conceivable (very ugly, I know).
I've also only been able to get Economy to show on Google flights, and not every Sunday. But, $2300 to get yourself to NY nonstop is not horrible.
Jun 2, 2023, 7:40 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 22
I find it hard to believe that this flight actually requires 16.5 hours en route. If so, that means a 3a arrival is conceivable (very ugly, I know).
I've also only been able to get Economy to show on Google flights, and not every Sunday. But, $2300 to get yourself to NY nonstop is not horrible.
I've also only been able to get Economy to show on Google flights, and not every Sunday. But, $2300 to get yourself to NY nonstop is not horrible.
Jun 2, 2023, 9:02 pm
#24
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https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1012955
Jun 11, 2023, 12:37 pm
#25
formerly rt23456p
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,210
Coverage to/from Beijing from Heathrow is very poor at the moment.
PVG: Between BA, Virgin, MU and CA there are around 4 daily flights
CAN: Daily flight with CZ
PEK: One flight a week with CA
PKX: Daily flight with CZ
XIY: Three weekly flights with TS (Tianjin)
TAO: Three weekly flights with JD (Beijing Capital)
CSX: Three weekly flights with HU
The pattern for HU group airlines immediately above seems to be to fly from 2nd tier airports to/from LHR.
I think that's the summary of what's going between LHR and China at the moment, but I might have missed something.
Even pre-pandemic the number of direct flights between China and the UK was noted to be less than France / Germany with LH and AF/KL doing good work with their China based partners.
PVG: Between BA, Virgin, MU and CA there are around 4 daily flights
CAN: Daily flight with CZ
PEK: One flight a week with CA
PKX: Daily flight with CZ
XIY: Three weekly flights with TS (Tianjin)
TAO: Three weekly flights with JD (Beijing Capital)
CSX: Three weekly flights with HU
The pattern for HU group airlines immediately above seems to be to fly from 2nd tier airports to/from LHR.
I think that's the summary of what's going between LHR and China at the moment, but I might have missed something.
Even pre-pandemic the number of direct flights between China and the UK was noted to be less than France / Germany with LH and AF/KL doing good work with their China based partners.
Jun 11, 2023, 12:41 pm
#26
formerly rt23456p
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,210
MU most frequent European destination is surprisingly Moscow. They fly 3x weekly from Xian and PKX, plus Daily to PVG. I wonder why four different Chinese airlines get to compete on the Beijing Moscow route but not any other European route, because during the rest of the northern summer CA, CZ, HU will fly daily from Beijing to Moscow, plus MU 3x.
Jun 19, 2023, 9:08 am
#27
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Sec'y Blinken just finished trip to China and from reports discussed opening up more flights to and from USA and seemingly made some progress. Does anyone know what was agreed to?
Jun 20, 2023, 12:58 am
#28
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Jun 20, 2023, 1:38 am
#29
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Blinken's direct involvement is a good sign IMO. My guess is that new flights will launch in September (i.e. after the summer US-Europe demand falls), and we'll get ~10 more weekly frequencies on each side.
Jun 20, 2023, 1:47 am
#30
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I think he's just getting the ball moving and probably trying to give something to the Chinese. They seem to want flights to the US more badly. Ultimately, isn't this Buttigieg's file?