Burger King in China (Beijing)
Jan 18, 2011 | 1:49 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,245
Thanks for the insight moondog. I've added my insight to some of your observations in blue.
-McD's chose a slow and methodical approach to localization (in order to maintain a product consistent with its locations in other countries), which entailed a high cost structure during its first ~7 years in country
I wasn't around, but have been told that we did more of a shotgun approach to setting up MCD in China. The way it was described, it would be like opening a store in LA, then NYC, then Chicago, etc. On top of that, we had the same sort of issues that anyone has when you have a joint venture with governmental influence (i.e. overpaying for land that is owned by your JV's wife's sister's cousin. Operationally everything was fine, but the stuff on the administrative side caused some issues. A lot of the non-performing stores were closed so we could focus on the ones that had potential.
-But, once they had all their ducks in order, they owned their supply chains Wal Mart style, and saw sharp rises in profitability
Maybe it's just semantics here, but MCD doesn't "own" the supply chain. We control it from a QA perspective and help manage pricing, but in the end, all stores (including the stores owned by MCD Corporate) buy their supplies directly from the suppler (via a distribution company). Also, it took us close to 20 years to get profitable in China. Despite what people think, it's not quite as easy as dropping in a store and making sales.
-Regarding BK, of course they should not be regarded as competition for McD/KFC; they have around ~30 stores, total
I meant worldwide, which is essentially the same story 8000 vs 32000
I wasn't around, but have been told that we did more of a shotgun approach to setting up MCD in China. The way it was described, it would be like opening a store in LA, then NYC, then Chicago, etc. On top of that, we had the same sort of issues that anyone has when you have a joint venture with governmental influence (i.e. overpaying for land that is owned by your JV's wife's sister's cousin. Operationally everything was fine, but the stuff on the administrative side caused some issues. A lot of the non-performing stores were closed so we could focus on the ones that had potential.
-But, once they had all their ducks in order, they owned their supply chains Wal Mart style, and saw sharp rises in profitability
Maybe it's just semantics here, but MCD doesn't "own" the supply chain. We control it from a QA perspective and help manage pricing, but in the end, all stores (including the stores owned by MCD Corporate) buy their supplies directly from the suppler (via a distribution company). Also, it took us close to 20 years to get profitable in China. Despite what people think, it's not quite as easy as dropping in a store and making sales.
-Regarding BK, of course they should not be regarded as competition for McD/KFC; they have around ~30 stores, total
I meant worldwide, which is essentially the same story 8000 vs 32000
Jan 18, 2011 | 1:54 pm
#17
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(Incidentally, I refused to accept his reasoning, and ended up collecting my winnings.)
-But, hey; the Chinese seem to love KFC, and their costs are low, so they deserve some props
-Regarding BK, of course they should not be regarded as competition for McD/KFC; they have around ~30 stores, total
-That having been said, if we give them a chance to work out their bugs, it's possible that they will be able to get their act in gear as well
-But, hey; the Chinese seem to love KFC, and their costs are low, so they deserve some props
-Regarding BK, of course they should not be regarded as competition for McD/KFC; they have around ~30 stores, total
-That having been said, if we give them a chance to work out their bugs, it's possible that they will be able to get their act in gear as well
Also, moondog, I'm curious as to what you won from the bet.
i'mlovin'it-I realize this probably isn't the place to ask this, but if I wanted to work for McD China's corporate office how would I go about doing that? English is my native tongue but I'm fluent in Mandarin since I was born in China. I'm graduating with a BSM in finance this may. I'm uncertain as to whether or not you know mandarin, but here's the link of a BTV cooking show I filmed last month:
v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM3MTY0MTQ0. htm Eggs benedict FTW!!
I come in around the 10:00 mark. I'm the big guy with glasses.
It shouldn't be hard to spot me.
Jan 19, 2011 | 2:30 am
#18
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Jan 20, 2011 | 10:19 pm
#19
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They saw the round "bread" and ham and instantly thought hamburger. The name is rather unfitting and unflattering. But to my knowledge there is no accurate translation into mandarin.
Jan 20, 2011 | 10:30 pm
#20
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ETA: For the sake of curiosity, I just googled "Benedict Arnold" and discovered that "贝内迪" seems to be the accepted Chinese version of "benedict" in that case.
Jan 21, 2011 | 4:29 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,397
I've seen both this 本笃鸡蛋 (a phonetic approximation of "Benedict" + egg) and the reverse on menus around here (Chef Too is the only specific data point that comes to mind). I liked your video, and the fact that you actually aspired to do a cooking show in China, by the way.
ETA: For the sake of curiosity, I just googled "Benedict Arnold" and discovered that "贝内迪" seems to be the accepted Chinese version of "benedict" in that case.
ETA: For the sake of curiosity, I just googled "Benedict Arnold" and discovered that "贝内迪" seems to be the accepted Chinese version of "benedict" in that case.
As for Benedict, google seems to reckon that 本尼迪克特 is the most popular transliteration. I think 本笃 is one of those classical transliterations that do not necessarily bear any resemblance to the original pronunciation. You probably have to be the Pope to be called that
Jan 21, 2011 | 9:30 am
#22
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
Should you write to BK rather than posting here?
Originally Posted by c1ue1ess88
Why are the higher ups at burger king china so foolish?
Apparently beijing has 5 burger kings, excluding the one at T3 at the PEK airport which is under the shanghai BK's jurisdiction. Recently I visited one because I missed american food and thought the BK at the airport was fairly good so I gave it a go. I also happened to be in the area so I thought why not. This particular location is roughly half a mile north of the Pearl Market, for those who have been there.
When I walked inside, I noticed the prices were 30-40% more expensive than McDonalds. I ordered a whopper and ate there. OMG the "beef" patty was so bland, and barely had any grill marks. I randomly asked an employee a question and she called over another lady. After looking at her name tag I noticed she was the general manager. Apparently the "bosses" over at BK corporate are trying to market BK as superior to McDonalds. I went at 6 p.m., which I consider dinner time. The place was barely 60% full, whereas every McDonalds I've been in has been 120% at capacity.
China is known for being the most populous country, and a rather poor one at that. The middle class is growing, but most still consider McDonalds to be a medium priced meal. I would think marketing BK as more expensive than McD is one the stupidest things they can do. Sure the buns might be slightly bigger and the tables nicer, but that isn't what draws the Chinese in.
If any BK exec reads this, lol, although I doubt any will, please do something to change your marketing strategy, otherwise I feel BK will exit the Chinese market within 3-5 years.
Here's what'd I consider/change/add:
1. Where the heck are the happy meal equivalents? No toys??? In the US some places have banned happy meals because they've been so successful in bringing in kids to their stores
2. Lower your prices. Chinese people don't really care if BK is higher quality, they care about what every one cares about. MONEY...So what if the buns at BK are better than those at McD?
3. Please add salt your patties... According to the GM of the one I visited BK doesn't add any salt to their patties.....WHAT??? What are we supposed to taste? the grease?
4. Dude the translations suck...I don't get why many of the translations were so bad, ie. on the menu. It's not like you're making up a new name. Just copy from the american menus.....
5. The meat tasted kinda weird... I purposely went to a McD a few days after to compare. If you must market BK as a better fast food joint, then please, don't cheapen the patties while spending more on buns and vegetables...People don't go to BK and McD to eat the buns and veggies...They're there to enjoy the "beef"...
That's what's up...
Apparently beijing has 5 burger kings, excluding the one at T3 at the PEK airport which is under the shanghai BK's jurisdiction. Recently I visited one because I missed american food and thought the BK at the airport was fairly good so I gave it a go. I also happened to be in the area so I thought why not. This particular location is roughly half a mile north of the Pearl Market, for those who have been there.
When I walked inside, I noticed the prices were 30-40% more expensive than McDonalds. I ordered a whopper and ate there. OMG the "beef" patty was so bland, and barely had any grill marks. I randomly asked an employee a question and she called over another lady. After looking at her name tag I noticed she was the general manager. Apparently the "bosses" over at BK corporate are trying to market BK as superior to McDonalds. I went at 6 p.m., which I consider dinner time. The place was barely 60% full, whereas every McDonalds I've been in has been 120% at capacity.
China is known for being the most populous country, and a rather poor one at that. The middle class is growing, but most still consider McDonalds to be a medium priced meal. I would think marketing BK as more expensive than McD is one the stupidest things they can do. Sure the buns might be slightly bigger and the tables nicer, but that isn't what draws the Chinese in.
If any BK exec reads this, lol, although I doubt any will, please do something to change your marketing strategy, otherwise I feel BK will exit the Chinese market within 3-5 years.
Here's what'd I consider/change/add:
1. Where the heck are the happy meal equivalents? No toys??? In the US some places have banned happy meals because they've been so successful in bringing in kids to their stores
2. Lower your prices. Chinese people don't really care if BK is higher quality, they care about what every one cares about. MONEY...So what if the buns at BK are better than those at McD?
3. Please add salt your patties... According to the GM of the one I visited BK doesn't add any salt to their patties.....WHAT??? What are we supposed to taste? the grease?
4. Dude the translations suck...I don't get why many of the translations were so bad, ie. on the menu. It's not like you're making up a new name. Just copy from the american menus.....
5. The meat tasted kinda weird... I purposely went to a McD a few days after to compare. If you must market BK as a better fast food joint, then please, don't cheapen the patties while spending more on buns and vegetables...People don't go to BK and McD to eat the buns and veggies...They're there to enjoy the "beef"...
That's what's up...
Jan 22, 2011 | 3:20 am
#23
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You know what the Chinese people mind? The lack of chilli or something spicy. Lots of Chinese people and some Koreans won't eat anything without any spice on it. They say it makes the food bland.
Jan 22, 2011 | 11:38 am
#24
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As for Chinese people's tastes, I think it's safe to assume that most of the major players have done their homework in this area (and have much better information than any of us), though the Taco Bell case does throw a wrench in this theory (i.e. they screwed up big across the board).
Jan 23, 2011 | 11:27 am
#25
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I'm European and while I sometimes like something "spicy" (which, for many asians is still bland) I find BK China to be wayyyyy too bland. Sorry. Tried it 3 times iirc, 1x Shanghai at the Peoples Square in 2006 or so, 1x Nanjing 2008 or 2009, 1x Shanghai at the airport 2010, and it was ALWAYS bland and not good. And more expensive than any other fast food chain. I like the occasional Big Mac, but in Europe I always prefer BK over McDo, even though (at least in Germany, Switzerland, UK and Spain, others I've visited to less to say for sure) BK is more expensive as well then McDo. Usually a BK menu is around 15-25% more expensive, but in my eyes also a bit more filling, so maybe from a calorie-per-buck it's 1:1.
In China, on the other hand, McD isn't THAT cheap either (as some others mentioned) but still BK managed to easily overprice them by quite some margin, without the better burgers they've in Europe.
For example, in China the only burger "known" to Westerners in BK is the Whooper. Where is the Big King (XXL), where is the Steakhouse, the Grilled Cheese, the Angry Whooper.... - I've even seen most of those burgers in BK in Asia, like Thailand for example, so it's not like Asian people don't like them.. in BK China, it seems for me you really only get the whooper with a few variations to pick from... generally, BK has WAY too little different items on the menu, even the night menu in the 24h KFC's have more different burgers to choose from..
(I only compare the Beef Burgers from McD, as their chicken products are horrible and I'll ALWAYS go for KFC if I want a chicken burger in China)
Oh, and I won't forget about the McDelivery service, which I really like. Damn those extra 6 Yuan, especially in winter it's a god sent service. And they speak English on the phone
Conclusion: I've had it with BK in China, no more, thanks!
In China, on the other hand, McD isn't THAT cheap either (as some others mentioned) but still BK managed to easily overprice them by quite some margin, without the better burgers they've in Europe.
For example, in China the only burger "known" to Westerners in BK is the Whooper. Where is the Big King (XXL), where is the Steakhouse, the Grilled Cheese, the Angry Whooper.... - I've even seen most of those burgers in BK in Asia, like Thailand for example, so it's not like Asian people don't like them.. in BK China, it seems for me you really only get the whooper with a few variations to pick from... generally, BK has WAY too little different items on the menu, even the night menu in the 24h KFC's have more different burgers to choose from..
(I only compare the Beef Burgers from McD, as their chicken products are horrible and I'll ALWAYS go for KFC if I want a chicken burger in China)
Oh, and I won't forget about the McDelivery service, which I really like. Damn those extra 6 Yuan, especially in winter it's a god sent service. And they speak English on the phone
Conclusion: I've had it with BK in China, no more, thanks!
Jan 23, 2011 | 8:11 pm
#27
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
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Posts: 6,710
I'm not much of a fast-food/burger person, even when visiting the US. But I do enjoy a BK burger once in awhile and loathe McD's burgers since I was a kid. My only attempt at getting a BK burger in China (BJ airport T3) was abandoned after they told me they could not make up a plain burger (meat-cheese-bun only)--due to dietary and preference reasons I can't eat burgers any way other than plain. So a potential customer was lost. I have not had this problem at BK in Malaysia, Thailand, Incheon airport, or any other place I can think of where I wanted to try a BK local version and put in the request for a plain burger--everywhere else it was always fulfilled promptly and deliciously.
ETA: Am now in Thailand, and in honor of this thread, went to local BK today to tickle my taste buds. The cheeseburger was mighty fine, am happy to report. Maybe Thai BK crews should be sent up to China to show 'em how it's done?
ETA: Am now in Thailand, and in honor of this thread, went to local BK today to tickle my taste buds. The cheeseburger was mighty fine, am happy to report. Maybe Thai BK crews should be sent up to China to show 'em how it's done?
Last edited by jiejie; Jan 24, 2011 at 9:33 am
Mar 13, 2011 | 10:41 am
#28
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First of all, I was unable to get through on the English line, so did the whole deal in Chinese. While this isn't a big issue for me, many expats here don't speak Chinese well enough to communicate with your call center.
Second, the girl I spoke with informed me that Big Macs were sold out. I fail to see how this is possible, in light to McDs strong penetration in my area.
Net result: they are sending me a single cheese burger. I don't want to rant too much because that cheese burger will make me happy, but the ordering process is in serious need of some fine tuning.
ETA: On the bright side, the speed of delivery was simply amazing... seven minutes
Last edited by moondog; Mar 13, 2011 at 10:51 am
Mar 13, 2011 | 10:59 am
#29
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Mar 13, 2011 | 9:13 pm
#30
Ambassador: China
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Step 1
Call 4008-517-517 from your home phone or mobile (This number is
universal for all areas of China)
Step 2
Press 2′ for English (or press 1′ for Chinese)
If you need Chinese translation of the menu, look here:
http://www.howtoorderchinesefood.com.../fast_food.htm
Step 3
If this is your first time calling, you need to register your address with them. So just tell them your address.. If its not your first time, they will tell you your phone number and address before proceeding to Step 4 If there is no
McDonalds close to you they will refuse delivery.
Step 4
Order your Big Mac, McChicken sandwich or whatever.
They will deliver it in between 30-45mins.
Delivery charge is 7rmb.