hobo13

OK, I missed this the first time around -- only read the OP's post.

Regardless of everything else going on here, I will say this:

I prefer the BOS TSA to the MHT TSA any day! Nothing beats Boston Logan when you want people to *NOT* care very much about doing their jobs!

SJCFlyerLG

What are you? Some kind of prevert?

markwtaylor

BUSTED! ^

adelauro

Perhaps it was her intent to provoke a confrontation, although I'm still not convinced. But so what? How does that change the TSO's responsibility to act professionally? She may have been trying to provoke a confrontation, but it takes two parties to actually have a confrontation.
A person may arrive at the checkpoint with an agenda, but that does not give the TSO the right to act like tyrants.

This is not for you to decide. Be a professional, do your job, and keep your personal feelings and amateur diagnoses out of it

lianluo

This thread is fascinating to me. I never realized how much difficulty some people can have with going through security. I too find some TSA folks unprofessional but I find that is true of every industry. I count myself lucky that I just go through, with my happy little baggie, and contentedly ensconce myself in the nearest lounge. I may not like all the rules, but I have enough stress in my life without adding to it. Sometimes after reading some of these threads and I think I should be angry and ready for a fight with TSA, but then I realize it won't make one bit of difference except to give me a migraine.

nhcowboy

Well, no, Firewind, I haven’t left . . . but did take a bit of a break to go off and lick my wounds.

You may want to leave now, then. I suspect this run be a bit long . . .

In reply to all the comments that have been posted here:

I find your response remarkable. Some of you have actually thought about what happened, considered where things went wrong, and pointed out what might prevent such problems in the future. Some of you (bless your hearts!) acknowledged that whatever I did or didn’t do, the TSOs involved probably took advantage of the opportunity to abuse their authority . . . as they are sometimes wont to do. And the rest of you have descended on me like a pack of prey animals.

So, to put things in perspective, let’s take a quick look at what’s got all of you so upset . . .

(1) Shoes. Well, you need to get over it. Swabbing a pair of shoes takes no more than a few seconds. It wasn’t a problem for me. It wasn’t a problem for the TSOs. It seems only to be a problem for those of you who’ve posted here. It’s a non-issue – let it go.

(2) Clean gloves. Yes, I requested clean gloves before the TSOs pawed through my stuff. Not remarkable. Many of the regulars in this forum have stated that they routinely make the same request. If you want to attack me for it . . . well, knock yourselves out.

(3) Clean counter. Well, to be honest, I wouldn’t want all my things dumped out on the airport floor. And I don’t feel a whole lot better about having them dumped out on a counter that’s just had dozens of pairs of dirty shoes on it. Sorry, I don’t see much of a difference. You may feel differently and, if so, good for you.

(4) The four bottles of water/juice. This, on looking through this thread, seems to be the thing that’s got you most incensed. It’s certainly what seems to have pushed the TSO regulars in this forum over the edge. Instead of bringing a single 6 or 8 or 12-oz. bottle of water or juice with me, I brought FOUR bottles! I really hadn’t given this much thought when I left for the airport – in for a penny, in for a pound, I figured. If I had a legitimate reason to bring extra liquid, it didn’t enter my mind that it should matter how much more I brought. And, of course, it shouldn’t have mattered. Except for the additional time screening it, it shouldn’t have been a problem at all.

But the extra bottles may have been, as someone so aptly described it earlier, like a red flag waved in front of a bull. In retrospect, it certainly seems that way. Certainly, it appears to have caused the TSOs on this forum to lose all reason. Even when I pointed out (twice) that the actual liquid involved was probably little more than a single liter, the “four liters” reference continued. You'd found my Achilles heel and weren't about to let it go.

But we can’t know, in the end, why it was that screening that day at MHT was so difficult. The TSOs who were there are not on this forum. Maybe it was the bottles. Or maybe the supervisor’s ears were still ringing from the woman who shrieked at him two days prior about having to leave behind her $140 bottle of cologne (I’m just hypothesizing here). Or maybe he had a fight with his lover before leaving for work that morning. For whatever reason, when he met me, he seems to have decided that it just didn’t matter how long it took me to get through security, and if I missed my plane in the process, tough luck.

Or maybe not. Perhaps, as someone suggested, shoe swabbing, plus clean gloves, plus cleaning the counter, plus testing the four bottles just took longer than the time I had left.

Still, when my son tells me that he actually saw a TSO going through a box of Kleenex sheet by sheet, I wonder . . . .

What I find most remarkable, though, is the response I’ve received here. There are those of you who don’t give a **** about the rules, or about your fellow passengers – just so nothing gets between you and the flight you’re trying to catch. There are those of you who place more value on rules than on reason. And there are those of you (far too many, in my opinion) who figure if I had a bad experience, I had to have brought it on myself. If I made ANY mistake you can identify, you are ready to throw me to the wolves. Oh, yeah, except that you ARE the wolves! This is the same mentality that caused some of you to d*** near take the head off the OP in this thread who brought a single smaller-than-3-oz. bottle of cologne in his/her carry-on and didn’t bother to put it in a ziplock bag because it was, after all, a SINGLE bottle and it wouldn’t have been any more efficient to put it in a bag. And yet that OP, like I, was accused of darn near trying to overthrow the government! “It was a deliberate attempt to sabotage security!” “The OP PLANNED a confrontation!” . . . . .

Nonsense. The reality is that a single 3-oz. bottle without a baggie does not hinder security, or security screening, in the slightest. And my multiple bottles of water or juice, although they take longer to test than a single bottle, are also not a threat to security or the screening process. Or the first salvo in a battle against the TSOs. They’re just bottles.

A passenger (even one who doesn’t travel every day) should be able to go through security without it being a nightmare – unless he or she really is trying to bring something on the plane that poses an actual risk to other passengers. For so many of you to decide not that what happened at MHT was my fault (which it may have been), but that I DESERVED it, strikes me as extraordinary. Some of you who attacked me so irrationally and with such venom are fairly new or infrequent participants in these forums, so you’ll excuse me if I don’t take what you said too seriously. But some of you ought to know better.

Right. On leaving my flight, I didn’t realize that gate-checked carry-ons (and this was all carry-ons with wheels on this particular flight) needed to be retrieved before leaving the gate. I left the gate and went down to baggage claim. Stopped at the entrance when I got there, and asked the TSO about gate-checked bags. She told me it was back at the gate . . . but that I couldn’t go back and get it. I was, at this point, the only passenger in the area, and had not yet entered baggage claim. Between me and baggage claim was a sort of fenced-in buffer area. (A sheep pen comes to mind.) On the opposite side, about 10 (?) feet from me, was a second TSO, and a very large sign saying that if you passed that point, you were entering into an unsecured area. Beyond that was baggage claim. I did not go past the sign. I didn’t even cross the buffer zone. I stopped just inside the buffer zone to speak to the first TSO. I was, I repeat, the ONLY passenger in the area, and the TSO saw me come down the hallway from the gate area. Oh, yes, and it was not a TSO I had met before. BUT she told me I could NOT go back and get my bag, and if I tried to, she’d have me arrested. (The latter was after I said something like, “You’ve got to be kidding, right?”) While I debated this with her, another passenger from my flight approached. I explained to him that I had become trapped in this little enclosure, and would he mind terribly fetching my bag for me. When he said he’d be happy to do so, the TSO intervened again and told him that if he went back for my bag, she’d have HIM arrested.

Right, clearly all my fault because (a) having not ever had a bag gate-checked before, I should intuitively have known to wait for it at the gate and (b) after having flown all night, I should have responded with patience and good humor when I was told that I was not allowed to retrieve my bag that was now unattended at the gate.

Or maybe, just maybe, this was as idiotic as it seemed.

But, please, tell me I’m wrong. Again.

We Will Never Forget

You just need to buy a very fuel-efficient car.

Obviously, this flying thing isn't working out for you.

Wally Bird

Obviously, in this post-9/11 world™ all passengers must know all the rules in minute detail, must not question the actions of the TSA, should not expect any assistance in the event of the smallest error and should abandon any expectation of logic or courtesy when flying.

Mission accomplished, you might say.

GadgetFreak

I think it is reasonable to say that I have not been a defender of TSA or of DHS on this forum or elsewhere. But in my experience, and that is flying about 200,000 miles a year every year since 2001 (and before for that matter) it has SIMPLY NOT been the case that:

I do see logic and courtesy as well as helpfulness and politeness from the TSA much of the time when flying. I have also seen passengers effectively leading with their chins and making the experience as bad as it could possibly be. And of course a lot of mixing of some of both in interactions. But I wasnt there, and from my experience and reading the comments on the OP on this and other friends, Im not willing to jump to a conclusion that the TSA was out of line here.

BearX220

Don't confuse criticism of your actions and attitude with sympathy for the rules (and their enforcers). I'm not saying bottles without baggies threaten world peace. I am arguing that trying to alter the policy at a checkpoint while your flight is boardng lands somewhere between unwise and pathologically solipsistic.

You acknowledge wanting or "needing" many kinds of exceptional treatment, but always on the basis that the rules are stupid. This is not a recipe for speedy passage through security. It is, perhaps, a perfect way to provoke vindictive treatment, which is what you got. In this respect, what you did is like poking a grizzly bear with a stick, then complaining when it clawed you. Travel strategy these days is all about tiptoeing past the (usually dozing) TSA grizzly bear.

Absolutely right. And the vast majority manage it. The way they manage it is by coping with the status quo, not stopping to argue that one aspect after another of the status quo is silly or shouldn't apply to them.

At the end of the day this is really about your own sense of exceptionalism. The real test to be applied is: how many people like you can the system stand? The answer is: very few indeed. You paralyze the system, force it to stop and contend with your (sometimes bizarre IMO) agenda, and -- dare I say it -- divert its attention from possible actual trouble.

That's where remarks like "Maybe this flying thing isn't working out for you" come from. Your expectations for accommodation are so far off the norm, airport traffic volume is so high, and your stress level is so off the chart, that you sound like a perfect candidate for Amtrak.

I do agree that the "I'll have you arrested" stuff on the return trip sounds over the top, but I also wonder how one passenger gets into so many different confrontations and showdowns without contributing any toxins to the human mix herself.

Peace, and stay off my flights.

tom911

With the experience behind you now, would you do anything different next time?

Princess1

IMHO, it is all about the goal. When I go to the airport, my goal is to get on that plane and reach my destination with as little problem as possible. My actions match that goal, even if it means isolating a single, life-threatening lipstick in a baggie and saying a (temporary) goodbye to my rights.

As I enter the line, I am also aware that I will be dealing with humans... and I have no idea what they have been through. For all you know, that crew might have just gotten briefed on the weapons that can be hiding in a box of Kleenex! Maybe I'm exaggerating here, but again, the way I act is to deal with any setbacks in a way that will get me on my plane.

If I am already pushing on one issue (such as hand screening of my film), I know I'd better make some concessions on others. Flight day is NOT the time to take a complete stand. Sorry. If I want to push them, I will do it on a day where I don't care if I make the gate.

The OP had a choice. What was more important- the flight, or her water/shoes/anti-germ campaign, etc. Every action points to the latter.

Don't blame FTers for not sobbing on your behalf. That many of these people get the same last minute flight changes on a frequent basis and never have this issue says something. My parents have sailed through security even with leg brace, chemo necessities, etc.

Next time, have some compassion for the poor people stuck in line behind you, Who KNOW how to follow the rules (irrational as they may be). Did you once, as you brought the system to a grinding halt, turn around and give a thought to them? Maybe, "Sorry, but it isn't my fault that even though you are doing everything right you will have to miss your plane because I insist that screeners do everything exactly accoring to MY wishes."

Here's a thought to new lines- 1) Expert, 2) Family, 3) Duhhh... whaddo I do now, and 4) The Rules don't apply to ME so I am going to completely hog the screeners time so no one else can get through.

ace26

BearX220 and Princess1 - two best posts in the entire thread. Quoted for truth.

On the gate checked bags: tough break. Threatening arrest seems excessive.

cestmoi123

nhcowboy, I don't know you, and maybe you're just terribly unlucky, but the consistently awful interactions you appear to have with the TSA and airport security indicate to me that there may be something about you that's creating an issue here.

cestmoi123

This may be the core of the issue. Your brought four partially full bottles with different liquids. Now, if someone's inclined to believe in the liquid bomb theory (and most TSOs likely do), that could mean one thing - you're planning on mixing them all together (since they'd all fit in one bottle), but you don't want them mixed now (maybe because they'd be dangerous once mixed).