As a US citizen, what questions is Customs permitted to ask you on arrival in the US?
Dec 30, 2007, 6:15 pm
#136
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
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"That searches made at the border, pursuant to the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into this country, are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border, should, by now, require no extended demonstration."
United States v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606, 616 (1977)
The customs search in border or POE circumstances requires no warrant, no probable cause, not even the showing of some degree of suspicion that accompanies even investigatory stops.
Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132, 154 (1925); United States v. Thirty-Seven Photographs, 402 U.S. 363, 376 (1971); Almeida-Sanchez v. United States, 413 U.S. 266, 272 (1973).
And in United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531 (1985) an approved warrantless detention incommunicado for more than 24 hours of traveler suspected of alimentary canal drug smuggling was held firm.
These pretty much speak for themselves. While their are rights to some degree at the border they are not what people think they are entitled to, for the most part.
United States v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606, 616 (1977)
The customs search in border or POE circumstances requires no warrant, no probable cause, not even the showing of some degree of suspicion that accompanies even investigatory stops.
Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132, 154 (1925); United States v. Thirty-Seven Photographs, 402 U.S. 363, 376 (1971); Almeida-Sanchez v. United States, 413 U.S. 266, 272 (1973).
And in United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531 (1985) an approved warrantless detention incommunicado for more than 24 hours of traveler suspected of alimentary canal drug smuggling was held firm.
These pretty much speak for themselves. While their are rights to some degree at the border they are not what people think they are entitled to, for the most part.
Dec 30, 2007, 6:17 pm
#137
Join Date: Feb 2007
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This is supposed to be America, not Nazi Germany, and Immigration officers are supposed to be the visible face of the government, and therefore the people, of the United States. I'm not quite sure when they (or, at least, some) started to become indistinguishable from jack-booted thugs, but I will not stand for it.
I almost always put $0 as the amount purchased abroad and never have issues.
I guess if the US is now Nazi Germany, Pres. Bush will remain in power for the next 13 years without real elections, have rounded up millions of our countrymen, murdered most of the opposition to the dictator, etc.
Dec 30, 2007, 6:23 pm
#138
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
Remember things have dramatically changed since the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were written centuries ago... an example,
not all provisions of the Patriot Act, nor of the National Security Act,
are in the open public realm, as they ought to be. Many provisions most congressmen can't even access.
There are enough scary activities done now. No need to make stuff up.
Please cite a source for the claim that "not all provisions of the Patriot Act, nor of the National Security Act, are in the open public realm,"
My counter-proof (not that it is needed, as you made the claim):
Full text Patriot Act:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03162:
Dec 30, 2007, 6:29 pm
#139
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
Actually, that is all you have. Or, you have a misunderstanding of law vs. policy.
The National Security Act of 1947 and all its various amendments are available for view either in various sections of the U.S. Code and/or in United States Statutes at Large (any good/major library will have this) or on various websites (this is the National Security Act of 1947 for example). http://www.intelligence.gov/0-natsecact_1947.shtml
Policies set pursurant to those laws may be secret or not for public consumption. But if your argument is that the government should have no secrets whatsoever and should post on the internet every troop movement and security plan we have, then that's another story.
Dec 30, 2007, 7:19 pm
#140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
I have probably crossed more than 500 borders including over 100 times thru US customs. I have been asked the simple questions that US Customs asks very frequently around the world. I believe counties have the right to protect their citizens and if asking a few questions helps, I hope they continue to do it.
I almost always put $0 as the amount purchased abroad and never have issues.
I guess if the US is now Nazi Germany, Pres. Bush will remain in power for the next 13 years without real elections, have rounded up millions of our countrymen, murdered most of the opposition to the dictator, etc.
I almost always put $0 as the amount purchased abroad and never have issues.
I guess if the US is now Nazi Germany, Pres. Bush will remain in power for the next 13 years without real elections, have rounded up millions of our countrymen, murdered most of the opposition to the dictator, etc.
Last edited by PTravel; Dec 30, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Dec 30, 2007, 7:38 pm
#141
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 361
Actually, that is all you have. Or, you have a misunderstanding of law vs. policy.
The National Security Act of 1947 and all its various amendments are available for view either in various sections of the U.S. Code and/or in United States Statutes at Large (any good/major library will have this) or on various websites (this is the National Security Act of 1947 for example). http://www.intelligence.gov/0-natsecact_1947.shtml
Policies set pursurant to those laws may be secret or not for public consumption. But if your argument is that the government should have no secrets whatsoever and should post on the internet every troop movement and security plan we have, then that's another story.
The National Security Act of 1947 and all its various amendments are available for view either in various sections of the U.S. Code and/or in United States Statutes at Large (any good/major library will have this) or on various websites (this is the National Security Act of 1947 for example). http://www.intelligence.gov/0-natsecact_1947.shtml
Policies set pursurant to those laws may be secret or not for public consumption. But if your argument is that the government should have no secrets whatsoever and should post on the internet every troop movement and security plan we have, then that's another story.
and so you posted the links for the UNCLASSIFIED portions
of the National Security Act . . . DUH .
Yes there is alot of what you may call 'scary stuff' going on.
Much of which YOU and the congressional monkeys shall NEVER know.
Dec 30, 2007, 8:08 pm
#143
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
And what I linked was not "portions" but a copy of the original act itself.
Again: please provide a single source for the statement that sections of the statutes known as the Patriot Act or the National Security Act are not available to the public.
Put up or well, you know...
Dec 30, 2007, 8:11 pm
#144
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/50C15.txt
"This legislation, referred to in text, means act July 26, 1947, ch. 343, 61 Stat. 495, as amended, known as the National Security Act of 1947."
When you have something more than a conspiracy theory about "Secret laws" passed (again, there's a distinction between POLICIES and LAWS), you let us know, ok sport?
Dec 30, 2007, 8:25 pm
#146
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 361
Uh, no. That's the statute. Like any other LAW, it is public knowledge. Thus, unclassified.
And what I linked was not "portions" but a copy of the original act itself.
Again: please provide a single source for the statement that sections of the statutes known as the Patriot Act or the National Security Act are not available to the public.
Put up or well, you know...
And what I linked was not "portions" but a copy of the original act itself.
Again: please provide a single source for the statement that sections of the statutes known as the Patriot Act or the National Security Act are not available to the public.
Put up or well, you know...
Being that you say you're in the 'first terrace of purgatory'
you should be quite familiar by now with things 'underground'
and ALL that IS doesn't necessarily need to surface.
It's obvious you're clueless of 'continunity of government'
matters and how it to be applied as necessary.
And I've said too much on this topic already and won't be
too surprised if I get a good chewing-out when I return to
the office next week.
It's time to return back on topic to the OP's original
question 'does immigration/customs have a right to question
the reason(s) a US citizen returns home after living abroad. . . .
rather than worry your bones as how best to verbally outwit
a seasoned spook...
Ciao.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Dec 30, 2007, 8:37 pm
#147
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
Thanks for the concession.
You had a chance to demonstrate "Secret laws" or secret portions of the Patriot Act and the National Security Act, and failed. I on the other hand proved the opposite: the FULL and COMPLETE text of both are available directly online from Congress throught the Library of Congress, the Government Printing Office, or both.
You made a bold assertion: portions of LAWS (not POLICIES derived from LAWS, but the LAWS or portions thereof themselves) known as the National Security Act and the Patriot Act were secret and unknown, even to members of Congress that voted for them.
This, despite the fact that
1) every LAW passed is enrolled in the House and Senate and
2) every LAW is published by the Government Printing Office and
3) ever LAW passed since the 1980s is online, with the others available in any major library and
4) the Patriot Act and the National Security Acts, in toto, are replicated in the U.S. Code.
When pressed for a single shred of evidence: you punt and claim to be a secret agent (i.e. "spook").
Thanks for demonstrating quite clearly your credibility level for all to see.
Dec 30, 2007, 8:38 pm
#148
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Posts: 232
My apologies. I saw Nazi Germany in two different posts and confused them. Just references to the US being like Nazi Germany really offend me.
Dec 30, 2007, 8:41 pm
#149
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: First Terrace of Purgatory (look it up)
Posts: 320
Main Entry: 1spook
Pronunciation: \ˈspük\
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch; akin to Middle Low German spōk ghost
Date: 1801
1 : ghost specter
2 : an undercover agent : spy
— spook·ish \ˈspü-kish\ adjective