Any idea on whether a loose ID is more likely to be lost or misplaced -- and therefore more likely to be misused in the future -- than an ID in a holder of some sort?

Majority? Who said majority? But there are several of us in this thread that can recognise logic. You cannot, and have yet to counter a real point about taking the ID out of the holder-why do you keep ignoring that?


No it is not, it showing the logic of the point that an ID must come out of a holder for a proper check. It is disturbing that you cannot comprehend this.


For visitors to a US federal building ID must be out-policy. Employees have ID lanyards. It is the policy at the 6 facilities NATO controls that ID be out of holders.
There are some guards at Geilenkirchen, Orland, and Trapani that do not always do it for those in uniform especially, but it policy. If you are stopped by a LEO 99.99% your ID is coming out of whatever holder it is in, and I know for a fact it is policy in many departments-would you like a list i can give it too you?...

So it is not a fact you dislike this government policy (you seemed to state this above)? Interesting, then why are you bringing in the strawmen? And ignoring responses that counter your point?

Really? Care to quote that and make the point? Or is this another one of your tangents about ID policy versus the thread topic of proper ID checking?


The reasons are listed, you just choose to ignore them.
Nowhere in this thread did I say �they do it [whatever �it� is in your words] so it must be effective� re: the policy only verifying the photo versus the person presenting it (you will see that in my response above-simple). It is done because it is logical and proper. Freshman undergrads figured this out years aog, why can you not?

You mentioned �inseparability� but did not back it up. Give one valid point why taking an ID out, as noted from the OP has something to do with inseparability and the policy issue. how are you connecting them?
You have yet to do that.

You have a problem with making things up and using partial quotes. You should address the whole post.And you do not understand what a house of cards argument is, because one I didn�t do it, and two even if I had that would not apply here. I can suggest some English dictionaries.

I lost ID would be easier to use for nefarious purposes at the airport by leaving it the holder with the new "owners" picture glued over. taking it out would help prevent this.

Ciao,
FH

I didnt pull my ID out of anywhere when I went into the west wing of the whitehouse 3 weeks ago. Stayed right in its holder.

I'm also switching to passport instead of DL. It's always a lot of fun since my passport expired several years ago and I have an extension at the end of it, so when the ID checker first sees the expiration date, he/she points it out and looks at me like I'm the "big catch" that they've been waiting their whole career for. They always look so crestfallen when I point out the extension. At first, I tried having the conversation about whether an expiration date makes a difference, since I'm still the same person, but I've discovered that most don't speak (or pretend not to speak) English, so I just dropped that part.

Mike

Interesting, since I have been through White House security three times in the last 16 months and it was a stated policy and SOP, but I would guess it depends on what kind of business you were on. Did you enter as a tourist? As long as you pass a metal detector I am sure they could care less.

If you process to enter for a meeting, the ID is taken, logged, then returned.
Same as if an ID screener is verifying picture to identity.

Were you a tourist or going to a function or have a meeting? In my three meetings there it was planly listed at the log booth to hand over you ID to verify the meeting and who you are.

Ciao,
FH

My old DL had an extension sticker on the back. The checkers are sooooo disappointed when they realized their big catch is slipping away. It's just so hilarious, shameful and sad all at the same time.

What country extends the validity of a passport?

As an aside, I have a similar situation where I always had to take my IL-DL "out," even before the latest development, because it is renewed on the reverse side for an additional four years.

Well I know Italy does. You get an ammendment on the second page, extending it 5 years.

Ciao,
FH

Tourist on a tour guided by a whitehouse staffer (son of my dad's west point roommate). One of the things I found curious was that unlike the east wing tour, purses/bags are allowed for the west wing tour. First time I ever saw the oval office in person.

As I am sure you are well aware, they clear you in advance prior to arriving at the whitehouse, though some people are arrested on the premisis for outstanding warrants etc. I work for the DOC anyways and no ID was ever required for my previous building due to it being mixed government/private.

ID checks were minimal the first time I went to the eisenhower building for General McCaffrey's retirement, though no one cared when I was in there a few weeks ago on the weekend.

I never presented any ID when I met DOC Secretary Evans years ago either.

Interesting. . .

So you can have a total of 15 years on the same passport?

China for one, there is an endorsement inside.

I find this whole back/forth amusing and remarkable. The fact we have three people who will never see an identical subject matter in the same light makes me laugh.

Regardless, whether the ID is in/out/on top of/up your backside/floating in air it cannot be considered any sort of "airplane" security measure.

I use "airplane" in quotes since that's what the TSA's purpose is - to assist in securing the aircraft and airport overall via passenger screening.

All an ID check does is secure the revenue stream for the airline.

Try and remember that the ID check was done in response to the 1998 crash/explosion of TWA800 (I think) and which was never recinded after the fact since the airlines suddenly realized they could prevent ticket selling.

Regardless, if anyone attempts to justify any ID check before boarding a plane calmly explain to them that all 19 hijackers would have been allowed on their respective planes due to all having valid identification from various sources.

And to lighten this post, I flew from SFO-JFK without ID. When I approached the first/business/status security line I informed the TSA woman I did not have any identification with a photo on it and was asked "Not even a Costco card or something like that?"

Now ain't that the kicker?!

"We don't care what form of ID it happens to be as long as it has your photo & name that match the boarding pass we'll let you through the WTMD."

*boggle*

Enjoy!
Brandon

It seems reading comprehension is problem with some, or some just see what they want to see. Reading through this thread, I see no one who said an ID check equals safety. If you can find that I will throw 100 dollars US into a paypal account for you. The only discussion, on topic, is whether one needs to inspect the ID to ensure the photo matches. No one said the ID could not be a complete fake, no one has said it increases security, no one has tried to justify an ID check.

RIF, wasn't that the old American cartoon-Reading is fundamental...

Ciao,
FH

Your posts reflect upon yourself even as you try to point the finger at others for what is your own approach. That, or your posts include items that are patently dishonest, as demonstrated with your shifting of the goal posts between this:

and this:

With regard to that building you only entered a handful of times in recent months, I have a history of being in it and next door almost daily some weeks in a month, going on for years. Perhaps you need to tell the US government that I dislike it as much as you pretend or imagine when making that unsubstantiated claim about me; I doubt anyone that matters -- or to whom it matters -- will take your claim about me seriously.

The checking of ID is premised on the idea that "ID check equals safety". That is why I said that which you claim is separable is really inseparable in this regard.