New review process of IDs?
Dec 18, 2007 | 10:00 pm
#16
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Neither you nor I nor anyone else standing around a checkpoint can assess either authenticity of a given document, or the validity of the person presenting a particular piece of ID.
The best a TSAer can do is determine that a particular document looks or seems real, and that the name and photo match the pax and their boarding pass. That's it.
The best a TSAer can do is determine that a particular document looks or seems real, and that the name and photo match the pax and their boarding pass. That's it.
Last edited by essxjay; Dec 19, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Dec 18, 2007 | 10:25 pm
#17
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Here's the overarching question of the hows and whys implied or asked above that I'd like answered: Are the reasons and justifications for the current review process of pax ID considered SSI?
Again, are the reasons and justifications for the current review process of pax ID considered SSI? If so, then I guess we'll have to live with speculation to the best explanation that we can come up with. If not, then substantive answers to the short list of questions generated thus far in this thread would be appreciated:
Again, are the reasons and justifications for the current review process of pax ID considered SSI? If so, then I guess we'll have to live with speculation to the best explanation that we can come up with. If not, then substantive answers to the short list of questions generated thus far in this thread would be appreciated:
- When exactly did the idea of an ID dragnet start to get kicked around at the TSA admin level, and do any of them think this is an efficient use of departmental resources?
- What is the duration of training for document identification?
- What is the scope of types of IDs TSO trainees are made familiar with, besides the obvious, i.e. US passports, state/protectorate DLs and non-DL IDs, Fed and state agency employee IDs, Concealed Carry Permits?
Corollary query to the above: Of the world's 245 nations, independent states, inhabited territories and areas of special sovereignty, how many and which types of identifying documents are TSOs presented with during training? Are the same examples presented to TSOs regardless of their working locale, e.g. Anchorage vs. Miami?
- Are trainees tested on detection of fake ID? IOW, are they they actually presented with dozens of samples of real and fake IDs in succession and scored on their ability to assess these samples for authenticity? What about validity with respect to the ID holder? (This is an important distinction, which is brought up repeatedly in this forum but never really addressed.)
- Do all US federal and state government IDs have holograms? What about watermarks? Since not all state IDs have expiration dates, how are those pax treated or not treated differently because of it, and why?
Dec 19, 2007 | 11:34 am
#18
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And Holograms/Watermarks can never be forged. Ever!
And the twits at DSM can recognize which of the 50 US state ID's, 10 Canadian Provincial (and 3 territorial) ID's, VI, PR, Guam plus over 160 passport-issuing entities have for security these days?
What risk? The bottom-line of the airlines??
And yeah sure it will slow lines, citizen, you betcha!
Spoke to the TSA supervisors at DSM and as you all suspect, no, all drivers licenses don't have holograms. You would be suprised what some ID's do have though, the new MN drivers licenses have your actual picture appear under blacklight. Nice job TSA with the new process, I think it will cut down on the risk, hopefully this won't slow lines down though.
What risk? The bottom-line of the airlines??
And yeah sure it will slow lines, citizen, you betcha!
Dec 19, 2007 | 11:43 am
#19
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Dec 19, 2007 | 12:27 pm
#20
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Gov't issued ID -- Other gov't
Apologies if this has been asked / answered elsewhere: Is an identification card (in my case, chip-embedded, raised plastic cover, hologram, photo ID) issued by a non-US government good for travel in the US?
It is good enough for 27 countries in Europe, is it good enough for the US?
Or do I need to keep bringing my passport when I fly EWR - BOS?
It is good enough for 27 countries in Europe, is it good enough for the US?
Or do I need to keep bringing my passport when I fly EWR - BOS?
Dec 19, 2007 | 12:30 pm
#21
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If you're providing your passport willingly, aren't you likely to be giving the ID checker MORE information than if you just took the DL (or whatever) out of your wallet??
Best, Dave
Dec 19, 2007 | 12:31 pm
#22
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...Is an identification card (in my case, chip-embedded, raised plastic cover, hologram, photo ID) issued by a non-US government good for travel in the US? It is good enough for 27 countries in Europe, is it good enough for the US? Or do I need to keep bringing my passport when I fly EWR - BOS?
Bruce
Dec 19, 2007 | 12:32 pm
#23
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It does however state "United States Goverment Identifcation" and property of United States Goverment and some stuff about Section 499 Title 18 USC.
I'm curious if in the future they will just use a card reader of some sort to verify the ID instead. Of course that runs into all sorts of potential issues.
Dec 19, 2007 | 1:27 pm
#24
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While I think this emphasis on ID is a PITA, I'm confused as to why you'd feel as you appear to w/r/t your ID?
If you're providing your passport willingly, aren't you likely to be giving the ID checker MORE information than if you just took the DL (or whatever) out of your wallet??
Best, Dave
If you're providing your passport willingly, aren't you likely to be giving the ID checker MORE information than if you just took the DL (or whatever) out of your wallet??
Best, Dave
My DL has my name, address, which county I live in, height, weight, sex, restrictions (ie I wear corrective lenses), I'm an organ donor, etc. In some states, your SSN and blood type too.
Passport's a much safer bet, especially when dealing with TSA.
Dec 19, 2007 | 1:54 pm
#25
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Is it a foreign passport? I don't see why foreign passports would be OK but not foreign-government IDs. The "rule" -- to the extent it's known -- says "government-issued photo ID." It says nothing about which government, but then again, it says nothing about the all-important expiration date, either!
Bruce
Bruce
Good enough? Maybe, but almost certainly it will hold up the line.
Dec 19, 2007 | 2:13 pm
#26
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If it's there, you can be darn sure that TSA will find a way to use it.
Dec 19, 2007 | 2:18 pm
#27
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Dec 19, 2007 | 3:13 pm
#28
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While I think this emphasis on ID is a PITA, I'm confused as to why you'd feel as you appear to w/r/t your ID?
If you're providing your passport willingly, aren't you likely to be giving the ID checker MORE information than if you just took the DL (or whatever) out of your wallet??
Best, Dave
If you're providing your passport willingly, aren't you likely to be giving the ID checker MORE information than if you just took the DL (or whatever) out of your wallet??
Best, Dave
My DL has my name, address, which county I live in, height, weight, sex, restrictions (ie I wear corrective lenses), I'm an organ donor, etc. In some states, your SSN and blood type too.
Passport's a much safer bet, especially when dealing with TSA.
it is a much safer bet and other than my i/d being gov't issued, valid (meaning non-expired), the name matching the one on my bp and the picture being one of me, any other info is none of the tsa's business.
now, if the tsa truly wants to get it right, have a device that reads the mag-stripe on the back of the d/l (similar to customs reading the micr line of a passport). you can get a bogus d/l but 9/10 times the fake d/l will be very good and will pass the black-light test but the mag-stripe will have no data. oh wait, this part makes too much sense.
Dec 19, 2007 | 4:06 pm
#29
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Superguy beat me to it.
it is a much safer bet and other than my i/d being gov't issued, valid (meaning non-expired), the name matching the one on my bp and the picture being one of me, any other info is none of the tsa's business.
now, if the tsa truly wants to get it right, have a device that reads the mag-stripe on the back of the d/l (similar to customs reading the micr line of a passport). you can get a bogus d/l but 9/10 times the fake d/l will be very good and will pass the black-light test but the mag-stripe will have no data. oh wait, this part makes too much sense.
it is a much safer bet and other than my i/d being gov't issued, valid (meaning non-expired), the name matching the one on my bp and the picture being one of me, any other info is none of the tsa's business.
now, if the tsa truly wants to get it right, have a device that reads the mag-stripe on the back of the d/l (similar to customs reading the micr line of a passport). you can get a bogus d/l but 9/10 times the fake d/l will be very good and will pass the black-light test but the mag-stripe will have no data. oh wait, this part makes too much sense.
MICR = Magnetic Ink Character Recognition (like on a check)
OCR = Optical Character Recognition
As far as a fake ID, from my college days I recall that the magnetic stripes are on most DL's not encrypted and have simple text. Don't think a magnetc stripe is a good idea-- have you ever had a credit card demagnetized?!?
Dec 20, 2007 | 5:52 am
#30
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Best, Dave