The difference has only to do with the answers to the questions "Are you gonna respect ma authoritah? Do Ya Wanna Fly Today?"

then I will repost my response from #15:

while many people are tired of many things going in the USA (re: security) at the moment, my self included, taking the ID out of the wallet/holder should not be one of them. Mind you the ID check itself is for a nother debate, but no having the ID behind plastic is actually very logical and is, and has been used by many governments, the USA included, for years.

All it takes is a cut out of a photo, placed over the the picture in the plastic to fool certain people, and it can look better than one might think.
Plenty of college students in America used (and some still use) this technique when being "carded" for alcohol. THe same can be used for flying.
I entered the Miami, C Pepper Federal building this morning. I had to have an ID out and ready to show-standard procedure. Enter any US or NATO military base and the ID has to be out (this used to not be the rule)-just a few examples).

Debating the policy is one issue, having the ID out of a holder is another.

Ciao,
FH
__________________

This is not some flavour of the month response to ID checking. Having the ID out to inspect is not illogical. If one has issues with the entire process, fine, we have many threads on that. Why exactly is taking an ID out of the holder so stressing and seen as illogical, when others figured out that leaving it in plastic makes it easy to alter?

Ciao,
FH

On this, I disagree. I think checking IDs (for security purposes) is silly. That being said, IF we operate under the premise that checking IDs has value, having them out of the holder (which does make it much easier to examine them) makes sense.

Think of it this way. If you had a case for your passport that covered your picture page with a clear plastic layer, would you vehemently object if CBP said that you needed to remove it?

In order to effectively kick you, we must use steel-toed shoes. Why are you complaining?

ID checking should not be happening at all. Making it more onerous, regardless of the reason is just another symptom of why this disease of an agency should be taken out back and shot.

As I noted above, wheter the IDs should be checked is not the topic here.
The point, and question was, to properly check IDs, should the come out of the container/plastic. It is not more onerous, it is proper. How you fathom that it can be onerous is vexing.
The answer is yes the IDs should come out of holders, and it is quite logical.

This thread is not a debate over ID verification as a policy, but the policy to ensure the already passed ID checks are effectively carried out.

Ciao,
FH

You can't separate like that, although you seem to be trying to.

The "already passed ID checks" are ineffectively carried out because ID verification as a policy is so questionable.

No it is not, though I am sure you would like it to be.
This does not rise above some American 7th grade debate tactic. It is seperate whether you like it or not. Otherwise why does NATO, The US Military, Law enforcment, bar doormen, supermarkets, banks, US federal and other national government buildings, the UN, and airlines themselves, require the IDs to be taken out of plastic/containers? So why exactly should one's laziness, or sense of being contrary play into logic to carry out a proper ID check?

Simple question really...

Ciao,
FH

Such a debate is purely academic. If we're going to have a discussion over which kind of poison is best for killing schoolchildren, I suppose that we could. However, the very premise of poisoning schoolchildren makes debating the methods rather unnecessary.

Yes it is inseparable, but you seem intent on claiming that it is not inseparable. Could that be because you surely would like it to be other than inseparable?

It is not separate whether you like it or not.

"Just because", as in "just because they do it" -- which is basically your explanation -- may convince a group of 7th graders, but it is not going to convince anyone who gives it a serious thought and doesn't fall for the "teacher said so" line of logic you are trying to sell us on.

If you hadn't noticed, let me help: many of those IDs are themselves coated with plastic.

You are forcing a debate where there isn't one. I am sorry this is hard for some of you (2nd person plural in English) to understand.
There are and have been great and valid debate threads about whether IDs should be checked. This was not one.
The question was brought up about whether IDs should be out of plastic/holders.
The answer is without a doubt yes, as dozens of agencis, private organisations, and governments have shown. The point was about THE very methods of succesfully carrying out the policy... not about the policy itself.

I would call what you are doing "thread creep"...

Ciao,
FH

Why bring up a "question" if you think you know the "answer"?



Actually, it would seem like you are doing that.

You have made no claim or case as to why it is; you are projecting exactly what you are doing on me. It is not because you say it is so.
I gave multiple valid reasons and sources as to why an ID needs to come out of a holder. You have not given a valid reason, as to why, to check an ID, to verify name and picture match the face of the person presenting it, it should not come out. The fact you dislike your government or didn't get enough toys as a child, or what ever contrarian side you come out on does not matter. The policy is the IDs will be checking.


You are repeating yourself. Tell us why...it seems you cannot.


It seems the majority of people here respond with American 7th grade like name calling and comments true, luckily I haven't done that, nor did I, in my explanation say "just because". Please quote that part of my post, or refrain for false arguments and strawmen.


Plastic is your strawman here it seems. being coated in plastic is not the issue. having a holder over an ID, where I photo can be places over the original is (just one of) the issue. As the millions of 18-21 years, non drinking Americans have learned, all you have to do is put your photo over an ID. Bars figured this out years ago. The US military figured it, NATO figured it, the UN figured it, most states and LEOs, figured it out, stores that take checks figured it out. The TSA figured it out, why can't you?


Ciao,
FH

I didn't bring up the questions. maybe you need to go reread this thread and the OP. I didn't question anything I answered the point cleary, quickly and with various sources.

Can you do more than post smiley faces and elaborate on the point?

I never brought up a debate either, nor did I discuss policy in this thread. The question started on this thread was simple. Myself and other responders have seen that. Sorry you cannot.

more thread creep it seems...

Ciao,
FH

I believe it was you who first referred to 7th grade in this thread.

Also, your claim related to "the majority of people here" seems short on facts unless you have done some grand study of the "majority of people here" that is top secret.

Here is your "just because"/"just because teacher said":

That is an attempt to say "just because they do it, it must be done".

By the way, not all of NATO requires ID out, nor do all LEOs, nor do all bar men, nor do all supermarkets, nor do all banks, nor do all federal office buildings even like the one that was on fire yesterday.

"The fact"? There we have it again with another one of those "because I say it is so". Weren't you complaining about that in your first paragraph above? Yes. How soon some fail to apply the lessons to themselves. How soon.

You did not give multiple valid reasons -- rather you built a house of cards whose foundation is "they do it so it must be effective", a house whose support beams are questionable premises given the inseparability that I referred to earlier.