No kidding. I'm curious to see what BigDogBart has to say in response to other posters' analysis of the ID requirement and liquid rules.

I'm just confused by seeing another TSA Bart. It's hard enough to keep scorecards of the players around here!

Quite frankly, I don't think BDBart will be coming back any time soon.

Would that really work in the US?

In Europe, when you board a plane using an online checkin boarding pass, ID is checked at the gate. The boarding pass is then either scanned (which will bring up a name), or the seat number is keyed into the PC at the gate (which will bring up a name) or is checked against a printed list (containing a name). If you edited the boarding pass, you would be caught in all three of those instances.

ID is not checked at the security checkpoint because that would be pointless. However it is also checked at check-in if you are obtaining a "normal" boarding pass, either by a human or the kiosk. You therefore wouldn't be able to obtain a traditional boarding card in the wrong name particularly easily (or at all) unless you held a convincing fake passport or (for UK domestics) driving licence.

Like e-ticketing, a self-printed boarding pass (or indeed most of the kiosk ones) is not itself evidence of the right to fly. It is a reference to a record in a database which is the actual passenger on the boarding list. It wouldn't even be that difficult, if everyone had the same type of ID, to remove the boarding pass completely and *just* check ID at the gate so long as sufficient suitable verification facilities were available.

That the (far more security-paranoid) US operates a system with far more loopholes than the above system is surprising and worrying at the same time.

Being a SIDA cleared employee, I can't discuss specifics about security issues...I will simply say that speaking from a position of knowledge, we have much bigger security holes than a passenger who wants to carry on a normal amount of liquids...

Check. I didn't realize you weren't a regular here.

Yes, I think that most here are not only well-versed on the rationale behind state and national ID schemes but also specifically seek refuge from other sectors of Flyertalk to freely vent about what they believe are patent absurdities and rationalizations w/r/t security. The civil libertarian current in here is strong to borderline strident, to be perfectly blunt. :-:

And focusing on 3-1-1, as opposed to legitimate security issues, is wasting time/resources and making the REAL holes bigger.

People that serve others don't force them to do things and ask others to force the people they are "serving" to pay them.

You aren't serving anyone. Subjects of you and your fellow government employees are serving you. Or else.

TSA workers and you are not debating from a position of equal standing. You are debating with your boot on the chest of your debate opponents. Even were they to conclusively prove the problems with this arrangement and what you are doing, you would still insist that the situation remain the same: your power over them.

You have your motives and reasons for wanting the situation to be this way, but don't act like your subjects' using sarcasm in the face of your refusing to change this situation (and you very easily could, of course) is an example of their doing something wrong. Remove your boot, step down to an equal footing as your debate opponent, and you'll likely see the tone of his responses change.

It's scary but true in the US. Watch the gate agents. They are looking at a count and if the computer beeps at them to alert them to a problem.

If the computer has everyone on the plane it thinks should be on the plane you are ok. You never see them reconcile the boarding passes with the names on the plane and they don’t check id at the gate.

This would close that loophole and would be an example of real security rather then security kabuki theater.

100% agree. If some of the people who even remotely feel that the current screening method does much of anything could see what you are talking about, it would blow their mind. I don't care what it is, if it fits in a carry-on, I could take it on a plane. And I don't think like a criminal. If I did, I'd probably be dangerous.

I had my lock cut in a trip to Chicago. I was so angry.. But I guess I was thinking too much about myself. Keep up the good work, TSO.

I'm not in it for the money. There are plenty of other ways for me to make much more money than my current job or than I made in my previous career as an Army officer. I'm not in it for the prestige because there are many other occupations that have much higher prestige and respect. I'm not in it for any sense of authority or power; I've had true authority and true power and have a healthy respect for it, when it is exercised properly. I'm not in it to bully other people; bullying is a sign of weakness and serious character flaw. I've dealt with true bullies and found them all to be cowards who prey on others' fears. Stereotype us as much as you want; you'll never get it right, pal.

I love my country. I am willing to do what is necessary to protect the freedoms enshrined by our Constitution. Already been places and done things that people like you only read about in adventure novels or see in action movies. I've seen and touched the elephant. I know how ugly it really is. I speak from firsthand experience not from reading books or watching anti-government videos. How about you?

I think I have a good perspective on airport security screening. It is NOT the last line of defense against terrorism but it is a PART of the overall strategy to protect innocent people from becoming victims of terrorism. In order for it to work effectively, it must have connectivity with the other moving parts; and in this regard, TSA is lacking. It is far from becoming a true integral part of a homeland defense team. Still, the work TSOs perform is important. While I will agree that some of the TSA screening procedures lean more towards risk avoidance, many of the procedures are risk management-oriented. But there is still much more work to do before TSA gets it right. The biggest issue, in my mind, is improving x-ray technology at the checkpoint. Checkpoint screeners need computed tomography x-ray technology that allow readers to see in 3D rather than the flat 2D images. ETD technology is fine; the bigger issue is the basics of blocking and tackling: ETD maintenance and proper ETD sampling techniques. At any rate, this is why I challenge critics to come up with a better system. To date, not one member of FlyerTalk has been up to the challenge, especially you. But I will continue to seek a true debate in here with anyone who seriously wants to discuss airport security and ways to improve it.

Anytime you have a situation where one person has to instruct another to follow a specific procedure, there will always be the perception that the one giving the instruction is either bullying, being bossy or otherwise coercing the one receiving instruction into performing a set of actions. This is true whether that person is the school crosswalk guard, city police officer, usher at the ball park or security screener at the airport. Americans have a tendency to resist authority, and that's a good thing. I hope we as a culture never lose that tendency. However, what you and many others fail to understand is that we are bound by laws, regulations and a code of conduct. We will be punished/disciplined under due process of law if we abuse our positions of trust and authority. I know this part falls on deaf ears in this forum, but we are held accountable for our actions on the floor. We don't coerce anyone as you claim. If you want to fly, you must first agree to abide by the conditions of carriage established by the airlines, which include undergoing security screening. If you don't want to undergo security screening, then you can't board the airplane. Can't make it any plainer or simpler than that. On many airline websites, you can't continue to the next web page for making reservations until you click on a button acknowledging the statement that outlines security screening procedures. So it should be no surprise when you show up to the airport that you have to go through security first. Yet you and many others in here act like this was some sort of last-minute effort by government to infringe upon your freedom of movement.

All I can say is that I've been in countries that were truly under the hard fist of government rule. I've seen the effects of tyranny and oppression. We in the United States aren't anywhere close to those conditions. Not by a long shot, You need to get around more and see the rest of the world. Not saying everything is perfect in the US, just saying that you make me giggle when you compare TSA to the SS, Mafia or any other similar entity.

It won't get me a drink here either, if I am ID'd and that is what I present.

But it will get you a job with the TSA for I-9 purposes

FWIW, most folks do have a valid DL. You kind of need it to drive - unless your name is Paris.

BTW: I usually stay in (or near) Lahaina when visiting Maui County and venture out to the dining establishments on Front St at night. Added: Lovely island! In fact it is my favourite among the Hawaiian Islands.

Not sure I know too many people who take the time to type out an eight-paragraph reply to others who "bore" them.