Why not comment on the content of those eight paragraphs?

^

Good morning, SDF_Traveler!

That has got to be the definition of irony, if true: An expired passport is accepted by the TSA for applying to work for them, but is not accepted by them as a valid ID to fly?

Is that correct? If it is, this world is nuts!

And mahalo for the kind words about Lahaina and Maui!!

BIGDOGBART
I also do not agree with anything in your posts. Will leave it at that so as not to get in trouble. But I will say welcome to flyertalk.

I will go you a step further. My daughter applied for both a new passport and a Social Security number in the American Consulate in Haifa.

Her old passport was sufficient proof of identification to get her a new passport.

It was not sufficient to get her the Social Security card because it had expired..

Once her new passport arrived, it was considered valid to get her a Social Security card.

(Follow that logic? A passport issued on the basis of an expired passport is valid ID but the expired passport itself is not. That is like saying that we won't take John's word that he speaks French, but if Bill tells us that John said he speaks French we will accept that John speaks it.)

Probably because he wasn't really writing it to TD, he was writing to other people out there reading. I mean, c'mon, do you really think he'll change TD's attitude toward the government?

A lot of the writing I do is not to the person who I'm responding to but to other people out there reading. I'm pretty sure Bart was doing the same.

There we have it. Case closed. The world is meshuggah.

Sh'aloha!

^^ Quote of the day!! ^^

Bart -

At the checkpoint level, you raise a good point here. The current technology used with x-ray machines is outdated. I would support a move to deploy new equipment (i.e. mini-CTX) that allows checkpoint screeners to see 3D images. I also support ETD screening.

Q: Is the TSA actually working on deploying CTX technology to the passenger checkpoints?

Setting aside other loopholes in airport security, when it comes to the passenger checkpoint the TSA plays an important role. Someone has to take this role and overall the TSA is better than what we had before.

I support the screening of all checked luggage and would like to see that expanded to cargo.

The big problem I have with the TSA is with some of the programs they want to push over on passengers such as "Secure Flight" (previously CAPPS II). I understand a lot of money has been mis-spent and wasted in numerous other areas since the inception of the TSA -- for that I blame Kip Hawley and the folks at TSA HQ. The same goes with the no-fly list and selectee lists. I saw the 60 minutes piece for the 2nd time last Sunday and Kip Hawley looks like a real idiot when confronted about the no-fly list.

The shoe carnival and liquid/baggie issues are also sore spots. TSO's are following HQ procedures - some are good about applying common sense with liquids while others either lack common sense or don't seem to understand the policy when it comes to medically necessary liquids which are more than 100 ml.

It's the HQ procedures I have a gripe with, especially in these areas. I believe we need to use more risk management vs. risk avoidance here. One could argue the baggies and limiting liquid quantities is risk management (vs a ban), but I feel the TSA can go much further with risk management. For that I blame Kippie and company.

Again you make some good points, Bart. I too hope we never lose the tendency to resist authority.

I have seen many TSA officers who are able to give instructions effectively & politely. On the other hand, there are those who feel it is necessary to yell it out and yell at the passenger. Some will even bully pax with a secondary screening if one speaks up. I think some customer service & communication skills training can go a long way here.

Bart, keep up the good work. It's refreshing to see things from your point of view.

The TSA may require other ID for background checks and such -- but for the sole purpose of an I-9, an expired US passport will do the trick!

Mahalo!

I guess the impasse' we're at with you, Bart, is about the degree of tolerance for government intrusion in our lives as citizens. It's a matter of principle rather than one of pragmatism.

The tyrannies in other countries that you've experienced, while germane to your reasoning, is not a relevant feature in a discussion about what we in the U.S. should accept as our way of life -- that is, one modeled on liberty.

A "by comparison" line of argumentation is not reasoning from principles: it's reasoning from exigencies. This is distasteful to me, and perhaps that's what the fundamental difference is between the position I take as a just one and what I am guessing that you take as a given and immutable practicality of modern life. In short, my thesis is this: The moral is the practical.

And by the way, I don't love my country any less than those who proclaim it explicitly. Just because I'm vocal in my disagreements with some here about how to defend it doesn't mean I'm ambivalent about its continuance or my obligations toward that end.

I'm unpersuaded by what's implied in your statements, that because the hard fist of government exists elsewhere -- when, really, it's unnecessary anywhere -- I should just be thankful for what I've got, when what I've got is life under a constitution in shreds. On top of that, I have to tolerate representatives who attend to their personal and political interests far more than to those of their electorate. This is to say nothing of the modal tyrant occupying the White House. Living with this hideousness is far more than any U.S. citizen deserves.

Thanks, but I've observed enough of the lives of others by now to know how fragile my own liberties are right here at home.

Probably more; braggarts tend to love themselves most of all.

I don't know about braggarts per se, but those who make reasonable, temperate claims about their patriotism I grant a fair amount of credulity, even when I'm not in agreement with them on matters of substance.

And IMHO, that is the saddest commentary of all, the fact that you would feel compelled to make this statement is all too reflective of the "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality that our proud country has let itself sink into.

Look forward to a better day!

Folks, let's keep the political commentary out of the thread, OK??

The thread has done nothing but head South since the OP. If we want to keep this thread open, pls limit your comments to the issues raised in the first post.

Thanks.


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Cholula

Travel Safety/Security Forum Moderator