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I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today

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I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today

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Old Sep 27, 2006, 3:53 am
  #166  
 
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And while you're there, check out "Wonkette Needs YOU To Spread Fear" (from Tuesday):

"A Wonkette operative writes today, “Upon complaining to my local airport screener this a.m. about the absurd security formalities, he volunteers, ‘Wait until you see what they are going to roll out next week.’”
Sadly, no details were provided. Please ask your friendly TSA screeners about “next week’s new regulations” and send us any & all responses.


...et cetera, et cetera. Looks like there's some kindred spirits at Wonkette. Here's a link to the complete item:
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/fea...ear-203403.php
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:41 am
  #167  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Now that we're to get back on topic, what other kind of things printed on a plastic baggie at MKE will cause me momentary entertainment?
I think writing "toiletries" in Arabic would be amusing.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:53 am
  #168  
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Originally Posted by bollar
I think writing "toiletries" in Arabic would be amusing.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 5:19 am
  #169  
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Originally Posted by thebigfish
Did the OP do it to get a reaction? Yes
Did he have a constitutional right to? Positively Yes.
Did the TSA over-react? Absolutely.

The OP needs to contact the media and the ACLU. Why? You did it to get a reaction - to make a point - you have a obligation to carry it through.

One idea: Pick a day and have thousands of flyers go thru security with the same Kip message. I think TSA would get the message...they're slow..so repition is important.
My thought also.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 5:27 am
  #170  
 
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Originally Posted by thebigfish
One idea: Pick a day and have thousands of flyers go thru security with the same Kip message. I think TSA would get the message...they're slow..so repition is important.
I like that. A "Kip Hawley is an Idiot" protest day. A better message to write on our regulation baggies, confiscated water bottles and x-rayed shoes would be "Horrendous Waste Of Time and $'s". ^
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 5:35 am
  #171  
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What if on one side of the bag your wrote "Kip Hawley is a nincompoop" and on the other side of the same bag you wrote "Kip Hawley is a great guy," would the TSA-Hole go insane with the paradox?
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 6:39 am
  #172  
 
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Originally Posted by dw8146
I like that. A "Kip Hawley is an Idiot" protest day. A better message to write on our regulation baggies, confiscated water bottles and x-rayed shoes would be "Horrendous Waste Of Time and $'s". ^
I love the Kip Hawley protest idea too, but we should instead either do it for a whole week, or just all the time. The First Amendment is not merely effective occassionally or when Kip Hawley feels like it - it operates all the time, regardless of what the TSA claims.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 6:56 am
  #173  
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Last edited by Bart; Jan 5, 2008 at 9:20 am
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:03 am
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Spiff
I'll let my fellow FTers have some fun with other translations.
(Original comment was about the Greek, until I realized it was modern Greek.)

Besides, the English says it pretty well: Kip Hawley is an idiot.

Last edited by MikeMpls; Sep 27, 2006 at 7:39 am
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:04 am
  #175  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
This thread is beginning to remind me of a bunch of kids playing "pretend." However, this thread has prompted me to brief my team to remain professional. I periodically remind my team to deal with the frustrations that passengers sometimes take out on us. Goes something like this:

"You aren't being paid to get insulted. So don't get insulted. Many people are frustrated at these security measures and may take it out on you. Stay professional and don't let it get to you. Usually, all they want to do is just spout off. If you don't give in, this will usually defuse the situation and all is forgotten. However, if they remain irrate or even get abusive, I still want you to remain calm and professional. You are not paid to deal with jerks. I am. Call me, and I'll deal with it."
You should be doing management consulting. Why is it that I have no doubt that when you get called you allow them to spout, you defuse the situation, and everything turns out OK?

Then again, you're a professional in an organization with very few of these. Keep on keeping on, perhaps this will filter down to other TSA employees by osmosis.

--PP
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:05 am
  #176  
 
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An awfully long thread for a childish prank. Maybe the OP can go TP Chertoff's house for his next topic. And if any of you think this forum can create some kind of wave of civil disobedience you need to run for Congress because you already have the self-importance gene in place.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:11 am
  #177  
 
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Originally Posted by Superguy
I think there would be more accountability as the TSA agent was acting in his official duties as an agent of the government. If a pax had said that, sure, that'd be protected.

The government is made up of people and is not an unassailable machine.
In theory, and to the letter of the law of the land, yes. But when you have an $6 billion dollar a year governmental agency that blows off court orders, hides behind "national security" and whose motto seems to be "RESPECT OUR AUTHORITAH", we are in fact dealing with a machine. What I want to know is why the congresscritters aren't dealing with this.

--PP
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:37 am
  #178  
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Different Message?

Maybe we should just suggest some different messages to place on baggies. Hopefully one of you is much funnier than I am.

"TSA Stupidity Container"

"SSSSS"

"Caution: Contents are SSI"
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 8:01 am
  #179  
 
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Originally Posted by themicah
Both the TSA guy and the deputy technically are right: there are limits to your First Amendment rights. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and speech that could be interpreted as a threat (or "fighting words") can be restricted.
Hang on, you've got to consider that yelling "Fire" in a theater isn't exercising your right at all. While I would agree with this guy that wrote on his bag (and I intend on doing it myself every time I fly from here out, just as I always check a handgun with my luggage just to piss off/mess with/scare the clerk people), in that he does have that right (he's part owner, via taxes, of the government, and he was NOT hurting anyone), you've got to understand /why/ he has that right.

I present a snippet of the great Murray Rothbard. For the full text, visit http://www.mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fifteen.asp


LIBERALS GENERALLY WISH TO preserve the concept of “rights” for such “human” rights as freedom of speech, while denying the concept to private property. And yet, on the contrary the concept of “rights” only makes sense as property rights. For not only are there no human rights which are not also property rights, but the former rights lose their absoluteness and clarity and become fuzzy and vulnerable when property rights are not used as the standard.

In the first place, there are two senses in which property rights are identical with human rights: one, that property can only accrue to humans, so that their rights to property are rights that belong to human beings; and two, that the person’s right to his own body, his personal liberty,, is a property right in his own person as well as a “human right.” But more importantly for our discussion, human rights, when not put in terms of property rights, turn out to be vague and contradictory, causing liberals to weaken those rights on behalf of “public policy” or the “public good.” As I wrote in another work:

Take, for example, the “human right” of free speech. Freedom of speech is supposed to mean the right of everyone to say whatever he likes. But the neglected question is: Where? Where does a man have this right? He certainly does not have it on property on which he is trespassing. In short, he has this right only either on his own property or on the property of someone who has agreed, as a gift or in a rental contract, to allow him on the premises. In fact, then, there is no such thing as a separate “right to free speech”; there is only a man’s property right: the right to do as he wills with his own or to make voluntary agreements with other property owners.
In short, a person does not have a “right to freedom of speech”; what he does have is the right to hire a hall and address the people who enter the premises. He does not have a “right to freedom of the press”; what he does have is the right to write or publish a pamphlet, and to sell that pamphlet to those who are willing to buy it (or to give it away to those who are willing to accept it). Thus, what he has in each of these cases is property rights, including the right of free contract and transfer which form a part of such rights of ownership. There is no extra “right of free speech” or free press beyond the property rights that a person may have in any given case.

Furthermore, couching the analysis in terns of a “right to free speech” instead of property rights leads to confusion and the weakening of the very concept of rights. The most famous example is Justice Holmes’s contention that no one has the right to shout “Fire” falsely in a crowded theater, and therefore that the right to freedom of speech cannot be absolute, but must be weakened and tempered by considerations of “public policy.” And yet, if we analyze the problem in terms of property rights we will see that no weakening of the absoluteness of rights is necessary.

For, logically, the shouter is either a patron or the theater owner. If he is the theater owner, he is violating the property rights of the patrons in quiet enjoyment of the performance, for which he took their money in the first place. If he is another patron, then he is violating both the property right of the patrons to watching the performance and the property right of the owner, for he is violating the terms of his being there. For those terms surely include not violating the owner’s property by disrupting the performance he is putting on. In either case, he may be prosecuted as a violator of property rights; therefore, when we concentrate on the property rights involved, we see that the Holmes case implies no need for the law to weaken the absolute nature of rights.

Indeed, Justice Hugo Black, a well-known “absolutist” on behalf of “freedom of speech,” made it clear, in a trenchant critique of the Holmes “shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater” argument, that Black’s advocacy of freedom of speech was grounded in the rights of private property. Thus Black stated:

I went to a theater last night with you. I have an idea if you and I had gotten up and marched around that theater, whether we said anything or not, we would have been arrested. Nobody has ever said that the First Amendment gives people a right to go anywhere in the world they want to go or say anything in the world they want to say. Buying the theater tickets did not buy the opportunity to make a speech there. We have a system of property in this country which is also protected by the Constitution. We have a system of property-, which means that a man does not have a right to do anything he wants anywhere he wants to do it. For instance, I would feel a little badly if somebody were to try to come into my house and tell me that he had a constitutional right to come in there because he wanted to make a speech against the Supreme Court. I realize the freedom of people to make a speech against the Supreme Court, but I do not want him to make it in my house.

That is a wonderful aphorism about shouting “fire” in a crowded theater. But you do not have to shout “fire” to get arrested. If a person creates a disorder in a theater, they would get him there not because of what he hollered but because he hollered. They would get him not because of any views he had but because they thought he did not have any views that they wanted to hear there. That is the way I would answer not because of what he shouted but because he shouted.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 8:14 am
  #180  
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musings

quote o the day so far: You KNOW these fools are out at the nighclubs callingthemselves "Federal Security officers" or something like that to impress chicks. Why? "Full time shoe sniffer" doesn't have that ring that's likely to get you laid. ^ LOL

If you wrote "Kip Hawley is not an idiot" could they arrest you for telling a lie?

LEO says they need your address to "fill out the form". When they harass a homeless person, what do they write in their form for address? "Soon to be the county jail if this dude does not shape up"? "T.G.O" as short for The Great Outdoors? If you must have an address to be arrested, are homeless people safer than suburbanites?

Long ago I thought about taking a lead film shield bag and cutting out messages visible on the xray. Like a smile face. Or letters to spell out "All safe here, how about screening some of that unscreened CARGO going 1 foot under my feet on the plane?"

For the OP: The Big Brass Ones Non Sheeple award of the week. That some refuse to let W and the TSA suspend the Constitution give me hope this mess might someday be straightened out.

Would the screener get upset if the ziploc said "I want to love Kip Hawley like he loves me"? And contained a condom and your For Medicinal Purposes 3 oz tube of KY?
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