View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree
766
75.92%
Disagree
144
14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree
75
7.43%
Not sure
24
2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll
I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today
Sep 27, 2006, 4:21 pm
#316
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Originally Posted by cme2c
Sure it is a positive if it had that impact, but honestly in my eyes if the ACLU took his case I would be disappointed in them.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:25 pm
#317
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Posts: 2,141
TSA is so slow to respond. I filed a complaint six weeks ago, and the only response I've received has been about 8 or 9 'The TSA has received your complaint' e-mails... I kind of want to know if my e-mail has been forwarded around...
Sep 27, 2006, 4:28 pm
#318
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by FWAAA
It's your belief that the Burbank Glendale Pasadena Airport Authority is not a unit of government? Is that your final answer? 
Lockheed sold the airport in 1978. So up until 28 years ago, it was privately owned. 
Sep 27, 2006, 4:29 pm
#319
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Posts: 1,441
Originally Posted by Scifience
And, unfortunately, I don't think you're likely to get much of a response from them. I think talking with the media and the ALCU would increase the likelihood of getting some sort of a meaningful response out of the TSA.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:33 pm
#320
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Why, freedom to write down a constitutionally-protected political opinion and carry such material through an airport without being subject to government retaliation for holding such an opinion isn't worth defending?
Sep 27, 2006, 4:33 pm
#321
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Location: Orange County, CA, USA
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Waiting for TSA
I have been waiting for 1 1/2 years for a response from TSA. And that was after I got a call from the TSA stating that the FSD at SFO was refusing to talk to them, so they would send the inquiry directly to management.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:35 pm
#322
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Originally Posted by FatManInNYC
As of 2004, the following states have stop-and-identify laws on the books:
Alabama Ala. Code §15-5-30
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. §5-71-213(a)(1)
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-103(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902(a), 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. §856.021(2)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)
Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. §46-5-401(2)(a)
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §29-829
New Hampshire N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §§594:2 and 644:6
New Mexico N. M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3
New York N. Y. Crim. Proc. Law §140.50(1)
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code § 2921.29
Rhode Island R. I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. §77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. §968.24
Alabama Ala. Code §15-5-30
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. §5-71-213(a)(1)
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-103(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902(a), 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. §856.021(2)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)
Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. §46-5-401(2)(a)
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §29-829
New Hampshire N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §§594:2 and 644:6
New Mexico N. M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3
New York N. Y. Crim. Proc. Law §140.50(1)
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code § 2921.29
Rhode Island R. I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. §77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. §968.24
Edit: In Wisconsin, LEOs demanding name, address and explanation of conduct is conditional. It applies ONLY if the LEO identifies himself/herself as a LEO and if the LEO reasonably suspects that the person being questioned is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime.
Does being at an airport and owning written material that expresses a constitutionally-protected political opinion amount to reasonable suspicion that a passenger is committing a crime, is about to commit a crime or has committed a crime? If so, which crime? I just don't see it.
Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 27, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Sep 27, 2006, 4:37 pm
#323
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Originally Posted by cme2c
So the same people who think Hawley is an idiot think that pressure on the TSA is going to have an impact. Plain and simple this boils down to the people they have working for them and their responses in the heat of the moment. You can't change that easily.
It may be difficult to change the behaviors of all of the individual screeners, but that is not to say that because it is difficult it should not be undertaken.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:39 pm
#324
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by exerda
The two (Kip Hawley being an idiot; and, pressure from media and legal exposure might help change things) do not equate. Idiots are forced to change their behavior all the time.
It may be difficult to change the behaviors of all of the individual screeners, but that is not to say that because it is difficult it should not be undertaken.
It may be difficult to change the behaviors of all of the individual screeners, but that is not to say that because it is difficult it should not be undertaken.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:42 pm
#325
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1
HAs anyone seen the ZUG article on TSA?
Its sort of Spinal Tap-ish but exceedingly amusing..
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?fun...hread_id=68619
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?fun...hread_id=68619
Sep 27, 2006, 4:44 pm
#326
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Originally Posted by cme2c
I would sure hope with the ACLU's limited resources they could find better things to do. I could give a cra* less about MKE's being subjected to "government retaliation" in this case, that's what he wanted. There are many more cases out there that are more worthy in my opinion.
This TSA-like approach of "take three ___ away, give two ___ back; take four ___ away, give three ___ back" and other incremental erosions/take-aways leave me net down. The small surrenders add up.
Sep 27, 2006, 4:53 pm
#327
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Posts: 1,461
Originally Posted by Flaflyer
I politely disagree. I work in a high tech field, on a one day business trip I carry some specialized tools which are no longer allowed in carry on, but must be checked. (pre- 911 I sometimes carried on my entire toolbox dumped in a soft side bag, enough tools to disassemble the plane, plus enough electronics, wires, and batteries that if I sent the same bag thru the xray today they would have the bomb squad blow up my bag. )
If I get to my destination and my checked bag is lost, I have no ability to perform the work function my company sent me there for. Not counting the cost of the items in the lost bag if they never are reunited with me, my time is wasted, my company loses the trip cost, the customer is upset at the delay caused by my inability to do what I was hired to do and might cancel business as a result. Specialized tools and electronics cannot always be bought locally if my company and I decide to replace them. Or stay overnight and have the factory Fedex some replacements to the motel. Either way, costly and bad for business.
This is not a vacation. It's called Business Travel. A need for a specialist and some specialized expensive equipment to arrive at a distant location. Together. Emphasis Together. On a short notice trip, there may not be time to ship equipment ahead of time. Everyone does not have the infinite budget needed to have several spare sets of expensive electronics to be able to ship a duplicate set ahead. Some equipment is fragile or can be damaged or knocked out of calibration by a drop. Think of your laptop--you can hand carry it with no case because you can protect it and be gentle to not break it. If you ship it Fedex, you have to pack it very well. Yet you do not know if it fell off a loading dock and got a big shock causing internal damage during shipping. If you hand carry it, you know it never got dropped, it never left your sight.
)If I get to my destination and my checked bag is lost, I have no ability to perform the work function my company sent me there for. Not counting the cost of the items in the lost bag if they never are reunited with me, my time is wasted, my company loses the trip cost, the customer is upset at the delay caused by my inability to do what I was hired to do and might cancel business as a result. Specialized tools and electronics cannot always be bought locally if my company and I decide to replace them. Or stay overnight and have the factory Fedex some replacements to the motel. Either way, costly and bad for business.
This is not a vacation. It's called Business Travel. A need for a specialist and some specialized expensive equipment to arrive at a distant location. Together. Emphasis Together. On a short notice trip, there may not be time to ship equipment ahead of time. Everyone does not have the infinite budget needed to have several spare sets of expensive electronics to be able to ship a duplicate set ahead. Some equipment is fragile or can be damaged or knocked out of calibration by a drop. Think of your laptop--you can hand carry it with no case because you can protect it and be gentle to not break it. If you ship it Fedex, you have to pack it very well. Yet you do not know if it fell off a loading dock and got a big shock causing internal damage during shipping. If you hand carry it, you know it never got dropped, it never left your sight.
So I have to schlep this whole friggin thing onto the airplane. Thank goodness that this hasn't gotten special scrutiny from the TSA yet, they generally see it and rush me through the checkpoint. Absent carrying it on, how would anyone suggest that I get this from here to there and have it in my constant possession? Breakiung news doesn't wait for FedEx.
There are a lot of reasons, as the poster I quoted demonstrated, why people do not or cannot check their luggage. If you travel with a laptop computer which almost every business traveler these days does, you sure as hell don't check that for the same reasons. My boss travels and usually has very tight time constraints getting off the first flight in and getting immediately downtown and into a meeting, no time to wait (and at O'hare you WAIT and wait and wait...and they don't honor the "priority" tags) for a checked bag.
Now for me at least, the restrictions mean that I have a TON more room to stash the camera and my computer bag. But it also means that I have to wait even longer for the bags I check to arrive (tripod, suitcase). All in all, a giant pain in the butt that does little if anything to improve aviation security.
But, the TSA is NOT a security agency. It's a FEDERAL JOBS PROGRAM. Once you accept the TSA as being a jobs program and NOT a security agency, a lot of this lunacy makes a lot more sense. There's going to be a call for even more funding and staffing shortly. Why? More JOBS need more MONEY. Why ban things and take more time to do it? The need for MORE JOBS. There are people like Bart who actually have real lae enforcement or security experience and they are trying to keep a lid on the lunacy, but there aren't enough Barts to fix it.
The TSA is the WPA of our generation. Or, as a far more clever poster stated previously, the TSA is simply "Kabuki Security".
--PP
Sep 27, 2006, 5:00 pm
#328
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Posts: 1,441
Originally Posted by kuerious
You may want to be careful about what you post, i.e. saying what an "intelligent terrorist" would do. I'm placing no blame, but programs such as the FBI's CARNIVORE and Magic Lantern, UKUSA's Echelon, and DARPA's T.I.A. (Total Information Awareness) (all now, in later days, replaced by "commercially available software") have the potential to come across and flag this thread, and even your account. I don't know how, or if they will, but its always better to be made aware. Just trying to offer advice.
Sep 27, 2006, 5:22 pm
#329
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Originally Posted by red456
Well, since Spiff is still amongst us, I'm not too worried about these spy agencies knocking on the door, no matter what I say, unless I make specific threats against certain individuals.
Sep 27, 2006, 5:36 pm
#330
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Montreal QC,CA
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Posts: 90
Originally Posted by quadzilla
Its sort of Spinal Tap-ish but exceedingly amusing..
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?fun...hread_id=68619
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?fun...hread_id=68619
Will have to continue once back in my room. The "Free back-of-the-handjob" is what finally did it.