Despite TSA's best efforts, prohibited items still get thru the security checkpoints
Jan 14, 2003, 10:00 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 11
Knives are a danger. A highly trained person with a knife could disturb a flight greatly. I know that you say "well the pasengers will kick his butt and no major damage will be caused". He might only kill what, 2-5 people. Who cares right? Well, What if one of those persons was your daughter or son, maybe your wife. You would probally care then right? So what trouble is it to go though more screening. Is it worth the few amount of people that will die? Remember that terrorist are there to terrorize. Even if they only killed a few people it would effect the airline industry greatly. I guess you wouldn't care about that b/c the lines would be shorter and you would have more leg room. I am commited to making sure that people dying in the name of terror on aircraft, will not happen on my clock.
[This message has been edited by TSACAE (edited 01-14-2003).]
[This message has been edited by TSACAE (edited 01-14-2003).]
Jan 14, 2003, 10:00 pm
#17
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
Randomly harass, continually harass. Makes no difference when you're harassed without probable cause.
That "minority" grows daily as people wake up and recognize how little this harassment contributes to security.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
That "minority" grows daily as people wake up and recognize how little this harassment contributes to security.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TSA@CAE:
Spiff...we don't randomly "harass." (your word) We "harass" EVERYONE. Sorry you see it that way, you are in the vast minority.</font>
Spiff...we don't randomly "harass." (your word) We "harass" EVERYONE. Sorry you see it that way, you are in the vast minority.</font>
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Jan 14, 2003, 10:02 pm
#18
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
I know it well enough that I am willing to bet my life on it.
And no, I've not had anything stolen from me at the checkpoints. I know how to pack.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
And no, I've not had anything stolen from me at the checkpoints. I know how to pack.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TSA@CAE:
Spiff said..."Even if someone has a machete, they are not going to hijack a plane with it."
You know this to be a fact how? You must have had to surrender a pocketknife at some point in your travels I suspect. </font>
Spiff said..."Even if someone has a machete, they are not going to hijack a plane with it."
You know this to be a fact how? You must have had to surrender a pocketknife at some point in your travels I suspect. </font>
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Jan 14, 2003, 10:04 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 67
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
If you see a knife or something suspicions on the x-ray, fine. If the magnetometer beeps, fine. Otherwise, you should leave people alone. Even if someone has a machete, they are not going to hijack a plane with it.
</font>
If you see a knife or something suspicions on the x-ray, fine. If the magnetometer beeps, fine. Otherwise, you should leave people alone. Even if someone has a machete, they are not going to hijack a plane with it.
</font>
Spiff, with respect, if a pax doesn't alarm and the x-ray looks fine, it is still possible (happens often) to find something that was missed. Same situation but now we don't pull someone and now we are accused of standing around not doing anything. It's a no win situation for us isn't it? Complaints if we do and complaints if we don't. We've all heard the TSA joke, Thousands Standing Around but fact is, we're trying to protect the public. Some may not buy that but that is what our job is and if saves just one person life, it would be worth it (even yours!). I can't put a price on my childrens lives, my parents not my siblings and I'm sure you all feel the same about yours. It's all about the big picture and in the long run, the kinks will be worked out. In addition, I do agree with alot that you say but not everything but at least we're talking.
Regards, SinJin...
Jan 14, 2003, 10:05 pm
#20
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
Big Furry Deal. One of my family members could much more easily be murdered with a knife off a plane than on it, your agency notwithstanding. We waste millions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere on your extremely highly improbable "killer on the aircraft" scenario.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TSACAE:
Knives are a danger. A highly trained person with a knife could disturb a flight greatly. I know that you say "well the pasengers will kick his butt and no major damage will be caused". He might only kill what, 2-5 people. Who cares right? Well, What one of those persons was your daughter or son maybe your wife. You would probally care then right. So what trouble is it to go though more screening. Is it worth the few amount of people that will die? Remember that terrorist are there to terrorize. Even if they only killed a few people it would effect the airline industry greatly. I guess you wouldn't care about that b/c the lines would be shorter and you would have more leg room. I am commited to making sure that people dying in the name of terror on aircraft, will not happen on my clock.</font>
Knives are a danger. A highly trained person with a knife could disturb a flight greatly. I know that you say "well the pasengers will kick his butt and no major damage will be caused". He might only kill what, 2-5 people. Who cares right? Well, What one of those persons was your daughter or son maybe your wife. You would probally care then right. So what trouble is it to go though more screening. Is it worth the few amount of people that will die? Remember that terrorist are there to terrorize. Even if they only killed a few people it would effect the airline industry greatly. I guess you wouldn't care about that b/c the lines would be shorter and you would have more leg room. I am commited to making sure that people dying in the name of terror on aircraft, will not happen on my clock.</font>
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Jan 14, 2003, 10:06 pm
#21
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,349
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SinJin:
Spiff, with respect, if a pax doesn't alarm and the x-ray looks fine, it is still possible (happens often) to find something that was missed. Same situation but now we don't pull someone and now we are accused of standing around not doing anything. It's a no win situation for us isn't it? Complaints if we do and complaints if we don't. We've all heard the TSA joke, Thousands Standing Around but fact is, we're trying to protect the public. Some may not buy that but that is what our job is and if saves just one person life, it would be worth it (even yours!). I can't put a price on my childrens lives, my parents not my siblings and I'm sure you all feel the same about yours. It's all about the big picture and in the long run, the kinks will be worked out. In addition, I do agree with alot that you say but not everything but at least we're talking.
Regards, SinJin...</font>
Spiff, with respect, if a pax doesn't alarm and the x-ray looks fine, it is still possible (happens often) to find something that was missed. Same situation but now we don't pull someone and now we are accused of standing around not doing anything. It's a no win situation for us isn't it? Complaints if we do and complaints if we don't. We've all heard the TSA joke, Thousands Standing Around but fact is, we're trying to protect the public. Some may not buy that but that is what our job is and if saves just one person life, it would be worth it (even yours!). I can't put a price on my childrens lives, my parents not my siblings and I'm sure you all feel the same about yours. It's all about the big picture and in the long run, the kinks will be worked out. In addition, I do agree with alot that you say but not everything but at least we're talking.
Regards, SinJin...</font>
Perhaps, if you weren't randomly grabbing people who have not set off any alarms, you would not be so busy that you miss searching the bag that is questioned and ends up getting away.
Jan 14, 2003, 10:06 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 227
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Randomly harass, continually harass. Makes no difference when you're harassed without probable cause.
That "minority" grows daily as people wake up and recognize how little this harassment contributes to security.
</font>
Randomly harass, continually harass. Makes no difference when you're harassed without probable cause.
That "minority" grows daily as people wake up and recognize how little this harassment contributes to security.
</font>
Jan 14, 2003, 10:06 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 67
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian:
SinJin, do not make the mistake of thinking that the small number of people here with the loudest views represent anything more than the tinist of minorities of the public. They do not.
Most of us respect the work you are doing, and thank you for it. </font>
SinJin, do not make the mistake of thinking that the small number of people here with the loudest views represent anything more than the tinist of minorities of the public. They do not.
Most of us respect the work you are doing, and thank you for it. </font>
Regards, SinJin...
Jan 14, 2003, 10:09 pm
#24
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
The probability of something a)not detected by the magnetometer and b)not detected by the x-ray and c)belonging to a terrorist and d)useable by a terrorist to hijack an airplane and e)sucessfully accomplishing d) is so microscopic that it's not even in the noise. We might as well hire people to watch for asteroids, lest they strike and kill an individual. You are wasting my time and money on the most improbable of possibilities.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SinJin:
Spiff, with respect, if a pax doesn't alarm and the x-ray looks fine, it is still possible (happens often) to find something that was missed. Same situation but now we don't pull someone and now we are accused of standing around not doing anything. It's a no win situation for us isn't it? Complaints if we do and complaints if we don't. We've all heard the TSA joke, Thousands Standing Around but fact is, we're trying to protect the public. Some may not buy that but that is what our job is and if saves just one person life, it would be worth it (even yours!). I can't put a price on my childrens lives, my parents not my siblings and I'm sure you all feel the same about yours. It's all about the big picture and in the long run, the kinks will be worked out. In addition, I do agree with alot that you say but not everything but at least we're talking.
Regards, SinJin...</font>
Spiff, with respect, if a pax doesn't alarm and the x-ray looks fine, it is still possible (happens often) to find something that was missed. Same situation but now we don't pull someone and now we are accused of standing around not doing anything. It's a no win situation for us isn't it? Complaints if we do and complaints if we don't. We've all heard the TSA joke, Thousands Standing Around but fact is, we're trying to protect the public. Some may not buy that but that is what our job is and if saves just one person life, it would be worth it (even yours!). I can't put a price on my childrens lives, my parents not my siblings and I'm sure you all feel the same about yours. It's all about the big picture and in the long run, the kinks will be worked out. In addition, I do agree with alot that you say but not everything but at least we're talking.
Regards, SinJin...</font>
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Jan 14, 2003, 10:10 pm
#25
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 67
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Perhaps, if you weren't randomly grabbing people who have not set off any alarms, you would not be so busy that you miss searching the bag that is questioned and ends up getting away. </font>
Perhaps, if you weren't randomly grabbing people who have not set off any alarms, you would not be so busy that you miss searching the bag that is questioned and ends up getting away. </font>
Knowledge vs. Assumptions
Regards, SinJin...
Jan 14, 2003, 10:11 pm
#26
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
Yeah, I know the Supreme Court is likely to uphold this disgusting example of "implied consent". I do not maintain that your activities are illegal, merely a disgrace of the principles on which this country was founded.
There are a great many things that are both legal and a disgrace.
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 01-14-2003).]
There are a great many things that are both legal and a disgrace.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tmspa:
What is with this "probable cause" and "illegal search" business I keep hearing from people. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Whether you know it or not, once you enter a security checkpoint you have just given "implied" consent to have your person and property searched, regardless of probability or suspiscion. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it.
</font>
What is with this "probable cause" and "illegal search" business I keep hearing from people. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Whether you know it or not, once you enter a security checkpoint you have just given "implied" consent to have your person and property searched, regardless of probability or suspiscion. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it.
</font>
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 01-14-2003).]
Jan 14, 2003, 10:11 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 11
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Big Furry Deal. One of my family members could much more easily be murdered with a knife off a plane than on it, your agency notwithstanding. We waste millions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere on your extremely highly improbable "killer on the aircraft" scenario.
</font>
Big Furry Deal. One of my family members could much more easily be murdered with a knife off a plane than on it, your agency notwithstanding. We waste millions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere on your extremely highly improbable "killer on the aircraft" scenario.
</font>
Jan 14, 2003, 10:13 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,349
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SinJin:
Tazi, our procedures don't work the way you spoke of and your assumptions are not accurate.
Knowledge vs. Assumptions
Regards, SinJin...</font>
Tazi, our procedures don't work the way you spoke of and your assumptions are not accurate.
Knowledge vs. Assumptions
Regards, SinJin...</font>
Yes, knowledge vs. assumptions. Your procedures just don't work when something like that happens. Not to mention, every airport seems to follow different procedures.
edited: spelling
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 01-14-2003).]
Jan 14, 2003, 10:13 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 67
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
We might as well hire people to watch for asteroids, lest they strike and kill an individual. You are wasting my time and money on the most improbable of possibilities.
</font>
We might as well hire people to watch for asteroids, lest they strike and kill an individual. You are wasting my time and money on the most improbable of possibilities.
</font>
Jan 14, 2003, 10:14 pm
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Loyal to Myself
Posts: 8,303
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
I know it well enough that I am willing to bet my life on it.
And no, I've not had anything stolen from me at the checkpoints. I know how to pack.
</font>
I know it well enough that I am willing to bet my life on it.
And no, I've not had anything stolen from me at the checkpoints. I know how to pack.
</font>