Medical Implants and the TSA
Jan 25, 2010, 4:05 pm
#61
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
You're ignoring the very important fact that very little of what TSA does makes anyone safer, and that many people know it. The shoe policy, for instance, is ridiculous -- no one has tried to use shoes as a delivery device for explosives in nearly a decade, because shoes are a lousy delivery device for explosives. There have been no shoe bombings in countries without a shoe carnival, there were no shoe bombings in the US before the shoe carnival was made mandatory for absolutely no good reason, there have been no shoe bombings since the carnival was made mandatory. Screening demonstrably has nothing to do with whether people use shoes to put bombs in. Yet TSA persists with a pointless, unhealthy policy that does nothing to make anyone safer and much to make security longer and more unpleasant.
The same could be said of the liquid policy, the international restrictions, the strip-search machines, the gate groping, the liquid checks of beverages at gates -- just about everything you do is an idiotic waste of time, conceived in a bed-wetting panic, untethered to any concern with reality or cost-benefit analysis. TSA's main function appears to be to do to our own society what the terrorists could not do themselves. Your agency is a pathetic joke that deserves every single bit of the widespread scorn, derision, and hatred Americans have for you. And everyone who puts on a TSA uniform in the morning should be ashamed of themselves.
The same could be said of the liquid policy, the international restrictions, the strip-search machines, the gate groping, the liquid checks of beverages at gates -- just about everything you do is an idiotic waste of time, conceived in a bed-wetting panic, untethered to any concern with reality or cost-benefit analysis. TSA's main function appears to be to do to our own society what the terrorists could not do themselves. Your agency is a pathetic joke that deserves every single bit of the widespread scorn, derision, and hatred Americans have for you. And everyone who puts on a TSA uniform in the morning should be ashamed of themselves.
Jan 25, 2010, 4:08 pm
#62
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
And why do you think that is? (It's an honest question.)
Look, people phone in story ideas to TV stations and newspapers all the time. I'm sure that some of them are utterly preposterous, and are dismissed out of hand. I'm sure that others of them are viewed as legitimate, but don't make it to print/air because they're viewed as not being as important as other stories.
You can write off an individual blogger "bad TSA" story as a crank with an axe to grind. But for that story to make it to a media news organization means that someone's made a determination (flawed as it may be) that the story has some merit, and is worth investigating.
People like government when government provides them with a recognized service; people dislike government when they impose an obligation upon them. Hence, senior citizens love the Social Security program because they get money out of it, while young people hate the Social Security program because they have to pay the taxes to fund it. And, of course, it's contradictory ... people love government when it provides them services, but despise government when it assesses taxes to pay for those services.
So, what does TSA need to do in order to be liked? Two simple things: provide a service that people want, and convince the public that in fact they in fact are providing a service that they want.
Nobody argues that airline travel needs security. But it's not clear to most of the public that the services TSA provides are, in fact, security. Which of the two things above aren't happening is a matter for debate.
Look, people phone in story ideas to TV stations and newspapers all the time. I'm sure that some of them are utterly preposterous, and are dismissed out of hand. I'm sure that others of them are viewed as legitimate, but don't make it to print/air because they're viewed as not being as important as other stories.
You can write off an individual blogger "bad TSA" story as a crank with an axe to grind. But for that story to make it to a media news organization means that someone's made a determination (flawed as it may be) that the story has some merit, and is worth investigating.
People like government when government provides them with a recognized service; people dislike government when they impose an obligation upon them. Hence, senior citizens love the Social Security program because they get money out of it, while young people hate the Social Security program because they have to pay the taxes to fund it. And, of course, it's contradictory ... people love government when it provides them services, but despise government when it assesses taxes to pay for those services.
So, what does TSA need to do in order to be liked? Two simple things: provide a service that people want, and convince the public that in fact they in fact are providing a service that they want.
Nobody argues that airline travel needs security. But it's not clear to most of the public that the services TSA provides are, in fact, security. Which of the two things above aren't happening is a matter for debate.
Jan 25, 2010, 4:33 pm
#63
Join Date: Sep 2002
Programs: AA Plat, Fairmont Platinum, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 4,534
There is just not much honesty connected with the TSA and that is what people hate about it. This government agency tells the public that it hires people only after they have had full back ground checks, which we find out is not true.
They hire people who steal millions and millions of dollars worth of other people's goods from them.
They hire people that constantly lie to the general public.
They hire people that threaten the flying public.
They hire people who purposely intimidate people going through security with asking them if they want to fly that day and bark and scream orders at them.
They also hire management all the way up the ladder that lies to us.
They make up regulations that have nothing to do with safety.
They bully people with arrest for carrying money and ask the flying public questions that they have no business asking and have nothing to do with safety on a plane.
They pretend to plant drugs in someon's luggage.
They see nothing wrong with looking at their granny's, mom's, baby sisters and brothers naked in a strip search machine.
They make new rules after the horse has been let out of the barn.
They deny any wrongdoing with anything even when there is proof that they are at fault.
There is no TSA consistency throughout American airports and then they say it's to throw the bad guys off. I think it has more to do with flunkies who can't memorize anything correctly and make up what ever they feel like for self importance and power.
They also make up new "layers of security" du jour.
WHAT IS THERE TO TRUST ABOUT THIS AGENCY?
I am sure I have missed many things. Please feel free to make any additions I have missed. I haven't looked at Youtube video's in a long time, so today I was looking at some TSA video's to catch up. What an eye opener it was to see quite a few things on the major news stations that were on Youtube.
The one that really got me was the one where they detained a man for carrying $4700.00 in cash, threatened him with the FBI, DEA and arrest because he wouldn't answer where he got the money and what he did for work. Little did they know he was recording the whole thing and it ended up on CNN and other major news networks. We, the public found out about this one, but what are we not finding out about that they are pulling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpzVPmih0
You (TSA) want to act in these disgusting, threatening and extremely scary ways. Then you have the audacity to play the blame game saying that just because you are a government agency that people hate you. WOW, is this kind of thinking coming from the top and trickling down or do TSO's think these things up all by themselves?
The TSA has no one to blame but themselves. They created their own monster and have no idea how to back peddle this one.
Instead of spending millions of dollars on those ridiculous looking uniforms and badges that mean nothing, perhaps they should think about hiring the best PR firm money can buy, follow the campaign that this PR firm sets up and stop behaving like Natzie's so that someday the American public can feel the trust that they should.
They hire people who steal millions and millions of dollars worth of other people's goods from them.
They hire people that constantly lie to the general public.
They hire people that threaten the flying public.
They hire people who purposely intimidate people going through security with asking them if they want to fly that day and bark and scream orders at them.
They also hire management all the way up the ladder that lies to us.
They make up regulations that have nothing to do with safety.
They bully people with arrest for carrying money and ask the flying public questions that they have no business asking and have nothing to do with safety on a plane.
They pretend to plant drugs in someon's luggage.
They see nothing wrong with looking at their granny's, mom's, baby sisters and brothers naked in a strip search machine.
They make new rules after the horse has been let out of the barn.
They deny any wrongdoing with anything even when there is proof that they are at fault.
There is no TSA consistency throughout American airports and then they say it's to throw the bad guys off. I think it has more to do with flunkies who can't memorize anything correctly and make up what ever they feel like for self importance and power.
They also make up new "layers of security" du jour.
WHAT IS THERE TO TRUST ABOUT THIS AGENCY?
I am sure I have missed many things. Please feel free to make any additions I have missed. I haven't looked at Youtube video's in a long time, so today I was looking at some TSA video's to catch up. What an eye opener it was to see quite a few things on the major news stations that were on Youtube.
The one that really got me was the one where they detained a man for carrying $4700.00 in cash, threatened him with the FBI, DEA and arrest because he wouldn't answer where he got the money and what he did for work. Little did they know he was recording the whole thing and it ended up on CNN and other major news networks. We, the public found out about this one, but what are we not finding out about that they are pulling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpzVPmih0
You (TSA) want to act in these disgusting, threatening and extremely scary ways. Then you have the audacity to play the blame game saying that just because you are a government agency that people hate you. WOW, is this kind of thinking coming from the top and trickling down or do TSO's think these things up all by themselves?
The TSA has no one to blame but themselves. They created their own monster and have no idea how to back peddle this one.
Instead of spending millions of dollars on those ridiculous looking uniforms and badges that mean nothing, perhaps they should think about hiring the best PR firm money can buy, follow the campaign that this PR firm sets up and stop behaving like Natzie's so that someday the American public can feel the trust that they should.
Jan 25, 2010, 6:52 pm
#64
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
There is just not much honesty connected with the TSA and that is what people hate about it. This government agency tells the public that it hires people only after they have had full back ground checks, which we find out is not true.
They hire people who steal millions and millions of dollars worth of other people's goods from them.
They hire people that constantly lie to the general public.
They hire people that threaten the flying public.
They hire people who purposely intimidate people going through security with asking them if they want to fly that day and bark and scream orders at them.
They also hire management all the way up the ladder that lies to us.
They make up regulations that have nothing to do with safety.
They bully people with arrest for carrying money and ask the flying public questions that they have no business asking and have nothing to do with safety on a plane.
They pretend to plant drugs in someon's luggage.
They see nothing wrong with looking at their granny's, mom's, baby sisters and brothers naked in a strip search machine.
They make new rules after the horse has been let out of the barn.
They deny any wrongdoing with anything even when there is proof that they are at fault.
There is no TSA consistency throughout American airports and then they say it's to throw the bad guys off. I think it has more to do with flunkies who can't memorize anything correctly and make up what ever they feel like for self importance and power.
They also make up new "layers of security" du jour.
WHAT IS THERE TO TRUST ABOUT THIS AGENCY?
I am sure I have missed many things. Please feel free to make any additions I have missed. I haven't looked at Youtube video's in a long time, so today I was looking at some TSA video's to catch up. What an eye opener it was to see quite a few things on the major news stations that were on Youtube.
The one that really got me was the one where they detained a man for carrying $4700.00 in cash, threatened him with the FBI, DEA and arrest because he wouldn't answer where he got the money and what he did for work. Little did they know he was recording the whole thing and it ended up on CNN and other major news networks. We, the public found out about this one, but what are we not finding out about that they are pulling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpzVPmih0
You (TSA) want to act in these disgusting, threatening and extremely scary ways. Then you have the audacity to play the blame game saying that just because you are a government agency that people hate you. WOW, is this kind of thinking coming from the top and trickling down or do TSO's think these things up all by themselves?
The TSA has no one to blame but themselves. They created their own monster and have no idea how to back peddle this one.
Instead of spending millions of dollars on those ridiculous looking uniforms and badges that mean nothing, perhaps they should think about hiring the best PR firm money can buy, follow the campaign that this PR firm sets up and stop behaving like Natzie's so that someday the American public can feel the trust that they should.
They hire people who steal millions and millions of dollars worth of other people's goods from them.
They hire people that constantly lie to the general public.
They hire people that threaten the flying public.
They hire people who purposely intimidate people going through security with asking them if they want to fly that day and bark and scream orders at them.
They also hire management all the way up the ladder that lies to us.
They make up regulations that have nothing to do with safety.
They bully people with arrest for carrying money and ask the flying public questions that they have no business asking and have nothing to do with safety on a plane.
They pretend to plant drugs in someon's luggage.
They see nothing wrong with looking at their granny's, mom's, baby sisters and brothers naked in a strip search machine.
They make new rules after the horse has been let out of the barn.
They deny any wrongdoing with anything even when there is proof that they are at fault.
There is no TSA consistency throughout American airports and then they say it's to throw the bad guys off. I think it has more to do with flunkies who can't memorize anything correctly and make up what ever they feel like for self importance and power.
They also make up new "layers of security" du jour.
WHAT IS THERE TO TRUST ABOUT THIS AGENCY?
I am sure I have missed many things. Please feel free to make any additions I have missed. I haven't looked at Youtube video's in a long time, so today I was looking at some TSA video's to catch up. What an eye opener it was to see quite a few things on the major news stations that were on Youtube.
The one that really got me was the one where they detained a man for carrying $4700.00 in cash, threatened him with the FBI, DEA and arrest because he wouldn't answer where he got the money and what he did for work. Little did they know he was recording the whole thing and it ended up on CNN and other major news networks. We, the public found out about this one, but what are we not finding out about that they are pulling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpzVPmih0
You (TSA) want to act in these disgusting, threatening and extremely scary ways. Then you have the audacity to play the blame game saying that just because you are a government agency that people hate you. WOW, is this kind of thinking coming from the top and trickling down or do TSO's think these things up all by themselves?
The TSA has no one to blame but themselves. They created their own monster and have no idea how to back peddle this one.
Instead of spending millions of dollars on those ridiculous looking uniforms and badges that mean nothing, perhaps they should think about hiring the best PR firm money can buy, follow the campaign that this PR firm sets up and stop behaving like Natzie's so that someday the American public can feel the trust that they should.
Jan 26, 2010, 7:53 am
#65
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
Actually I was not playing the blame game as you state; if you read what I wrote I actually said if TSA were to change/fix all the things mentioned here.... But it's nice that you either didn't read what I wrote or ignored it - or possibly didn't understand it, maybe (not meanig that as an insult) - and write that I said th TSS is hated because it's a government agency. Good that you innocently or purposely change what I wrote to fit your argument. Thanks.
TSA is really deep in the "trust" hole with the public, partly due to management/policy actions, and partly due to the behavior of individual screeners. It takes far, far longer to rebuild trust than to destroy it.
You maybe right: the public may never again trust the TSA. But that is laid upon your (the TSA's) own feet.
All the incidents of misbehavior by TSA employees have not gone unnoticed. And each incident makes it worse (or as a partner of mine used to say "you're only as good as your last screw-up"). Some trust might be restored if TSA management would not impose ludicrous policies like they did after the panties bomber, and if the would stand up, show some courage, and publicly denounce the bad actions by the workforce instead of defending those actions or hiding behind a wall of blame-placing, secrecy, or denial. Had the agency stood up with a strong statement against the overreaching screener in Fofana (instead of letting it go to court), or stood up and publicly said "the behavior of the screener in the Newark incident is intolerable and he has been fired", or said much the same in the recent Philly case, then some trust would be restored. Instead we got a full-court defense in Fofana, blame-placing in Newark, and a cover-up in Philly. The nipple-ring incident is another example.
If you want to rebuild trust, the agency has to show honesty and integrity, both of which are lacking. Not that all screeners are bad (there are plenty of good ones), but the bad ones are not smited down quickly.
For a great example of how it works, read this article. Now think how the concept applies to the TSA.
Jan 26, 2010, 10:59 am
#66
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 418
I wasn't ignoring it, I wasn't talking about it. In fact, up to this point I didn't think we were talking about whether or not TSA policy makes anyone more safe. The examples given to me by others only delt with rudeness, behavior that is not reflective if a professional organization, and unaccountability of TSA employees. I haven't yet argued one way or another on te effectiveness of TSA policy.
Nearly every single policy imposed by your agency is based on panic, stupidity, and lies.
Your agency's employees are the agents by which policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies are enforced.
It's difficult to be polite when one's job is enforcing policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies; indeed, such conditions help create an us-vs-them mentality, where us is the aforementioned agency of panic, stupidity, and lies, and them is innocent citizens seeking to travel by air. And the panic, stupidity, and lies discourage decent people from applying to work for TSA, so you get a lot of rude jerks as the public face of the agency.
Any attempt to figure out why Americans hate TSA that ignores the (at best) ineptitude and (at worst) corruption of the agency and its policies is going to come up as woefully short as yours does. We don't hate you just because you deal with security. We don't even hate you just because you deal with security and are in many cases rude jerks about it. We hate you because you're peddling panic, stupidity, and lies and telling us it's security, and you're often rude jerks about it.
Jan 26, 2010, 1:03 pm
#67
Join Date: Sep 2002
Programs: AA Plat, Fairmont Platinum, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 4,534
Actually I was not playing the blame game as you state; if you read what I wrote I actually said if TSA were to change/fix all the things mentioned here.... But it's nice that you either didn't read what I wrote or ignored it - or possibly didn't understand it, maybe (not meanig that as an insult) - and write that I said th TSS is hated because it's a government agency. Good that you innocently or purposely change what I wrote to fit your argument. Thanks.
I am not misunderstanding anything. I read very well and have an above average I.Q.
I am confused as to how or why you inserted your name in my post. Where did I say that SATTSO said the TSS is hated because it's a government agency? I didn't quote you and only posted once to this thread, so can you throw me a bone here and tell me what you are talking about?
Jan 26, 2010, 5:27 pm
#68
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Then let me explain it very, very simply:
Nearly every single policy imposed by your agency is based on panic, stupidity, and lies.
Your agency's employees are the agents by which policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies are enforced.
It's difficult to be polite when one's job is enforcing policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies; indeed, such conditions help create an us-vs-them mentality, where us is the aforementioned agency of panic, stupidity, and lies, and them is innocent citizens seeking to travel by air. And the panic, stupidity, and lies discourage decent people from applying to work for TSA, so you get a lot of rude jerks as the public face of the agency.
Any attempt to figure out why Americans hate TSA that ignores the (at best) ineptitude and (at worst) corruption of the agency and its policies is going to come up as woefully short as yours does. We don't hate you just because you deal with security. We don't even hate you just because you deal with security and are in many cases rude jerks about it. We hate you because you're peddling panic, stupidity, and lies and telling us it's security, and you're often rude jerks about it.
Nearly every single policy imposed by your agency is based on panic, stupidity, and lies.
Your agency's employees are the agents by which policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies are enforced.
It's difficult to be polite when one's job is enforcing policies rooted in panic, stupidity, and lies; indeed, such conditions help create an us-vs-them mentality, where us is the aforementioned agency of panic, stupidity, and lies, and them is innocent citizens seeking to travel by air. And the panic, stupidity, and lies discourage decent people from applying to work for TSA, so you get a lot of rude jerks as the public face of the agency.
Any attempt to figure out why Americans hate TSA that ignores the (at best) ineptitude and (at worst) corruption of the agency and its policies is going to come up as woefully short as yours does. We don't hate you just because you deal with security. We don't even hate you just because you deal with security and are in many cases rude jerks about it. We hate you because you're peddling panic, stupidity, and lies and telling us it's security, and you're often rude jerks about it.
Jan 26, 2010, 5:32 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Did I use your name when I wrote my post? I was talking about the agency as a whole. Since I didn't directly aim my words at you I couldn't have twisted anything you said around.
I am not misunderstanding anything. I read very well and have an above average I.Q.
I am confused as to how or why you inserted your name in my post. Where did I say that SATTSO said the TSS is hated because it's a government agency? I didn't quote you and only posted once to this thread, so can you throw me a bone here and tell me what you are talking about?
I am not misunderstanding anything. I read very well and have an above average I.Q.
I am confused as to how or why you inserted your name in my post. Where did I say that SATTSO said the TSS is hated because it's a government agency? I didn't quote you and only posted once to this thread, so can you throw me a bone here and tell me what you are talking about?
"You (TSA) want to act in these disgusting, threatening and extremely scary ways. Then you have the audacity to play the blame game saying that just because you are a government agency that people hate you. WOW, is this kind of thinking coming from the top and trickling down or do TSO's think these things up all by themselves?"
I think i started that idea in this thread. A few other TSA employees backed it up, but I started. And I can not find anywhere where TSA has post something similiar.
So if you were not talking about me, about what I wrote, I apologize. And please direct me to what you were referring, so that I will not be further confused.
Thanks.
Jan 26, 2010, 6:06 pm
#70
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: AA (PPro/3MM/Admirals Club), AS, UA, Marriott (Gold), HHonors (Gold), Accor (Plat)
Posts: 2,602
Jan 26, 2010, 6:32 pm
#71
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: TSO, AS MVP, AOPA member, Private Pilot ASEL
Posts: 571
Jan 29, 2010, 4:03 pm
#72
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Bastille Day is considered to be the beginning of the French Revolution (symbolically anyway). The people stormed the Bastille (which was a fortress that served as a prison as well), and even after the gates were opened to prevent wholesale slaughter both sides kept fighting (oops). It signalled the beginning of the end of feudalism in France and is celebrated as the French Independence Day (basically). Interesting couple of notes, the storming citizens were reinforced by "turncoat" guards of the Bastille, and none of the prisoners being detained during the storming were of any real consequence politically. Nutshell description, and please forgive me if I am fuzzy on details, it ha been 20 yeara since I read anything about it.
Jan 29, 2010, 4:40 pm
#73
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: boca raton, florida
Posts: 621
Bastille Day is considered to be the beginning of the French Revolution (symbolically anyway). The people stormed the Bastille (which was a fortress that served as a prison as well), and even after the gates were opened to prevent wholesale slaughter both sides kept fighting (oops). It signalled the beginning of the end of feudalism in France and is celebrated as the French Independence Day (basically). Interesting couple of notes, the storming citizens were reinforced by "turncoat" guards of the Bastille, and none of the prisoners being detained during the storming were of any real consequence politically. Nutshell description, and please forgive me if I am fuzzy on details, it ha been 20 yeara since I read anything about it.
Jan 29, 2010, 8:46 pm
#74
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BLI or CLT
Programs: The usual suspects
Posts: 1,904
As I said, I think security, if done properly and with respect, wouldn't bother some people. But let me ask you this, how many news stories do you see on tv inor in the papers where the media expouts the virtues and work well done by any government agency? Those are so few and far between.... People generally do not like government, and when you add the level of control an organization like TSA need, people like you, though appreciated; are the minority. Just my opinion, and I'll leave it at that. 
Generally, frequent flyers approve of the concept of airline security; even more than the TSA, we do not want WEI on our flights. However, the way in which TSA executes "security" is flawed - the rudeness, the foolish knee jerk responses, the theater, the thievery - and that is what we object to. As others have noted, my experiences with airline security in other countries has largely been positive. No one likes being searched, but if the agent is professional, respectful and fair, we appreciate the value, despite the inconvenience.
Security and respect need not be mutually exclusive.
Jan 29, 2010, 10:42 pm
#75
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: TSO, AS MVP, AOPA member, Private Pilot ASEL
Posts: 571
I think most people in the US have positive viewpoints of many government agencies. Most people on Medicare seem very satisfied with their insurance, and the only complaints I've heard about the Social Security Administration are from those whose approval for disability benefits takes too long. They are very anxious to be part of the program ASAP. Popularity is not limited to those agencies that give out money or health care: most Americans love the National Park System, even though admission fees are required.
Generally, frequent flyers approve of the concept of airline security; even more than the TSA, we do not want WEI on our flights. However, the way in which TSA executes "security" is flawed - the rudeness, the foolish knee jerk responses, the theater, the thievery - and that is what we object to. As others have noted, my experiences with airline security in other countries has largely been positive. No one likes being searched, but if the agent is professional, respectful and fair, we appreciate the value, despite the inconvenience.
Security and respect need not be mutually exclusive.
Generally, frequent flyers approve of the concept of airline security; even more than the TSA, we do not want WEI on our flights. However, the way in which TSA executes "security" is flawed - the rudeness, the foolish knee jerk responses, the theater, the thievery - and that is what we object to. As others have noted, my experiences with airline security in other countries has largely been positive. No one likes being searched, but if the agent is professional, respectful and fair, we appreciate the value, despite the inconvenience.
Security and respect need not be mutually exclusive.