Kiwi Flyer

What is being proposed is not reciprocity because it is a blanket approach applying to many countries, not just US visitors.

pewpew

I've given this some thought. With the existence of the Schengen area, how can this necessarily be enforced? More specifically, with the inclusion of Switzerland, Norway and Iceland, would it not just be possible to enter the Schengen area through one of these countries (unless this is a prerequisite for remaining in the Schengen area, which seems rather strange, diplomatically speaking) and then not have to bother with the ETA? And would travelers to Ireland or Croatia, which aren't part of the Schengen zone, need this?

So many questions

televisor

No reason why non-EU Schengen countries should have any issues with this: they already use SIS and VIS, and can all issue and handle Schengen Visas. This probably builds on top of existing systems. (Moreover the press release talks about Schengen, not EU.)

Similarly: non-Schengen countries handle all of their immigration by themselves, they won't care about Schengen specific rules. Croatia is admittedly a bit more special, I'm going to guess they won't particularly care about ETIAS.

GUWonder

Ireland being a case of EU non-Schengen. Norway being a case of Schengen non-EU.

ETIAS is to be a Schengen thing, but this is being pushed by the EU as a whole.

televisor

That's because EU are in charge of Schengen. But the rules only apply to Schengen members, and to all Schengen members.

The formal ETIAS proposal only talks about Schengen. UK and Ireland are explicitly excluded in that proposal. The non EU cases are also mentioned as being covered since this is a Schengen rule.

WorldLux

How are they going to control migration within the EU? ETIAS would apply to entries into the Schengen area and not traveling within Schengen area. The nationals of EU-members, that are not part of Schengen, would have to be treated as nationals of the EU-member state they try to enter.

In other words, an Irish national flying to Berlin would be treated upon arrival like a German and not require an ETIAS authorization. This would apply the other way as well, if Ireland decides to adopt a similar system.

GUWonder

Not all of the EU is in the Schengen zone. And even EU citizens can be hassled on crossing into or out of an EU country -- Schengen or not -- by local national authorities. For example, the U.K. uses APIS data to receive even some EU nationals on arrival; and some of those arrival passengers are then sent packing back to elsewhere in the EU.

An Irish soccer hooligan arriving into Berlin from the U.K. for a soccer match in Germany can be denied entry into Berlin in a way not applicable to a German soccer hooligan on the same flight coming for the same match.

GUWonder

Wasn't there a conversation about post-Brexit retaliation if ETIAS applied to British passport users in the main? A reciprocal move by the U.K. Government that hits EU citizens would have to get a fix around Ireland remaining in the EU and being a part of the Ireland-UK CTA.

televisor

I honestly don't think the EU will care. Prosecco all over again. (Not that an EU exit is by any means guaranteed, judging by current trends.)

flyerCO

The Schengen treaty is really what is being discussed I believe. However some people think EU=Schengen. AFAIK all signatories to Schengen are required to adopt certain requirements. The process for making it a requirement I'm not versed in. I'm not sure the Nordic countries even can stop it from becoming a requirement. (They're not full EU members)

televisor

The actual proposal explicitly lists non-EU Schengen countries as part of the Schengen aquis, and explicitly excludes those with Schengen opt-outs (UK, Ireland, etc). In other words: yes, it's Schengen.

GUWonder

Is the Schengen treaty being revised to explicitly include ETIAS? Not to my knowledge. Are the Schengen countries to act collectively under the treaty, including with regard to implementing ETIAS as a standard? That's the idea behind how this proposal is supposed to work.

Except for Iceland and Norway, the Nordic countries are EU members for legal and all related practical purposes under the involved treaties/international law. Except
for Norway and Iceland, the Nordic countries are full EU members under the legal agreements that determine who is an EU member state. Having some autonomous/semi-autonomous areas and/or having negotiated opt-outs or delayed implementation of some aspects of EU "requirements"? That doesn't make an EU state less of an EU member state. In other words, except for Norway and Iceland, the Nordic countries are full EU members.

flyerCO

WilcoRoger

When I was referring to Nordic I was meaning those outside the EU. ie Norway and Iceland. EU members get a full say/veto power depending on the issue so could stop this. Norway/Iceland basically get told what to do and technically have no say over if it gets approved or not. One of the reasons some in those 2 countries don't like the current setup.

That's the price they have to pay for wanting to stay OUT of the EU but still be IN Schengen. Join the club, you'll have a say. If you're just having lunch in the club, you have no say in the club rules.

Britons will have to understand this soon as well (not Schengen, but generally in things EU related)

flyerCO

I think it's more like agreeing to the rules to goto the club, but then being told how to act at home. To bring it OT, this part of reason I don't see this happening without fuss.