declining pat down
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, MR Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 926
declining pat down
Long story short, I attempted to leave the airport last night and go home after the nude-o-scope determined I was a terrorist and I was informed I would need to be molested before getting on my plane. I was told several times leaving the airport was not allowed, but when I asked, I was also told they were not allowed to detain me. Apparently my only option was to be molested.
After doing some research, I've learned that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled you cannot revoke your consent to search after entering an airport security checkpoint. Ok, fine. So the TSA finally got some law on their side.
So humor me here - if they can't detain me, and also cannot let me leave the airport without being groped (which I finally agreed to), what should the final outcome be? Any ideas of what I could have done differently in order to leave the airport without being fondled? I believe that only checkpoint in the airport closes at 9 pm - what happens if I'm still declining a search at that point?
After doing some research, I've learned that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled you cannot revoke your consent to search after entering an airport security checkpoint. Ok, fine. So the TSA finally got some law on their side.
So humor me here - if they can't detain me, and also cannot let me leave the airport without being groped (which I finally agreed to), what should the final outcome be? Any ideas of what I could have done differently in order to leave the airport without being fondled? I believe that only checkpoint in the airport closes at 9 pm - what happens if I'm still declining a search at that point?
#2
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Ham Sandwich Medallion
Posts: 889
The TSA can levy of civil penalty of up to $11,000 against you for failure to complete screening, even if you decide to decline entry into the sterile area (frankly, I think the only sterile area in an airport is the bleached-out space between a TSO's ears, but I digress). That said, I have yet to hear of anyone actually being slapped with that fine or otherwise hassled after walking away. Even the TSA knows how much bad press it would generate to do so.
Being that the TSA can't actually detain you, I would suggest loudly telling them (so that the other passengers in line can hear) that you refuse to have your genitals touched and you're leaving the airport rather than completing their screening. Then do so. If the TSA really wants a scene, they'll call for an LEO and create a mess that will slow down security and allow everyone in line to hear about how the TSA is requiring you to have your genitals touched even if you intend to go home.
Being that the TSA can't actually detain you, I would suggest loudly telling them (so that the other passengers in line can hear) that you refuse to have your genitals touched and you're leaving the airport rather than completing their screening. Then do so. If the TSA really wants a scene, they'll call for an LEO and create a mess that will slow down security and allow everyone in line to hear about how the TSA is requiring you to have your genitals touched even if you intend to go home.
#3
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1. TSO's aren't law enforcement officers (LEO's) so they can't detain you, but every checkpoint has 1+ LEO's, generally local police / airport police, etc. who are required to be on duty for exactly that reason. The LEO can detain you.
2. DHS (TSA's parent agency) can propose significant civil fines, which like it or not, will likely stick in a situation such as this.
2. DHS (TSA's parent agency) can propose significant civil fines, which like it or not, will likely stick in a situation such as this.
#4
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Unfortunately for you, I think they can fine you and it will stick in a court of law, at least in the lower courts.
Of all the silly rules that TSA has, this is one that makes sense to me. If you go through security and cause some sort of alarm, it's reasonable for them to expect to resolve the situation. Otherwise, it could be enabling "dry runs" for bad people trying to test the system for vulnerabilities.
That said, you should be allowed to go through the scanner as many times as you wish - if you're OK with that - without ever allowing them to put their hands on you. This was the whole thing with Rand Paul a couple of months ago, when he was detained at security and refused a patdown and they wouldn't let him be scanned a second time.
Of all the silly rules that TSA has, this is one that makes sense to me. If you go through security and cause some sort of alarm, it's reasonable for them to expect to resolve the situation. Otherwise, it could be enabling "dry runs" for bad people trying to test the system for vulnerabilities.
That said, you should be allowed to go through the scanner as many times as you wish - if you're OK with that - without ever allowing them to put their hands on you. This was the whole thing with Rand Paul a couple of months ago, when he was detained at security and refused a patdown and they wouldn't let him be scanned a second time.
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DFW
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Interesting comments. I do somewhat understand the rule, but dang, I'm a young, very, very white blond woman with a boarding pass that says PLATINUM on it and a GE card. The only vulnerabilities I'm looking for are the ones which allow me through with the least amount of hassle.
In fact, I did have them call LE over. That particular LEO found the entire thing ridiculous, especially as the TSO was holding my boarding pass that I had "surrendered" as "proof" I had no intention of flying and was ready to escort me out, except the TSO said no. Which is really why I was asking the question. I didn't quite feel like pushing them far enough to get arrested, but it did appear they had no interest in arresting me. And after I took my boarding pass back, how would TSA know my name in order to level civil penalties against me?
I did offer to go through the scanner again, and was told that was not allowed either. I wonder why.
I'm also curious - on a somewhat side note - about how I can consent to be sexually assaulted. I can't consent to being murdered, so how is this different?
In fact, I did have them call LE over. That particular LEO found the entire thing ridiculous, especially as the TSO was holding my boarding pass that I had "surrendered" as "proof" I had no intention of flying and was ready to escort me out, except the TSO said no. Which is really why I was asking the question. I didn't quite feel like pushing them far enough to get arrested, but it did appear they had no interest in arresting me. And after I took my boarding pass back, how would TSA know my name in order to level civil penalties against me?
I did offer to go through the scanner again, and was told that was not allowed either. I wonder why.
I'm also curious - on a somewhat side note - about how I can consent to be sexually assaulted. I can't consent to being murdered, so how is this different?
#6
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IAH mostly.
Programs: I still call it Onepass every now and then. Platinum.
Posts: 500
Interesting comments. I do somewhat understand the rule, but dang, I'm a young, very, very white blond woman with a boarding pass that says PLATINUM on it and a GE card. The only vulnerabilities I'm looking for are the ones which allow me through with the least amount of hassle.
In fact, I did have them call LE over. That particular LEO found the entire thing ridiculous, especially as the TSO was holding my boarding pass that I had "surrendered" as "proof" I had no intention of flying and was ready to escort me out, except the TSO said no. Which is really why I was asking the question. I didn't quite feel like pushing them far enough to get arrested, but it did appear they had no interest in arresting me. And after I took my boarding pass back, how would TSA know my name in order to level civil penalties against me?
I did offer to go through the scanner again, and was told that was not allowed either. I wonder why.
I'm also curious - on a somewhat side note - about how I can consent to be sexually assaulted. I can't consent to being murdered, so how is this different?
In fact, I did have them call LE over. That particular LEO found the entire thing ridiculous, especially as the TSO was holding my boarding pass that I had "surrendered" as "proof" I had no intention of flying and was ready to escort me out, except the TSO said no. Which is really why I was asking the question. I didn't quite feel like pushing them far enough to get arrested, but it did appear they had no interest in arresting me. And after I took my boarding pass back, how would TSA know my name in order to level civil penalties against me?
I did offer to go through the scanner again, and was told that was not allowed either. I wonder why.
I'm also curious - on a somewhat side note - about how I can consent to be sexually assaulted. I can't consent to being murdered, so how is this different?
What goes unexplained is why someone must either submit themselves to indecent display of their body or - what they might consider to be - inappropriate touching just to get on an airplane.
#7
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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I bet I can be out of the airport before they arrive.
Doubtful, as suggested above. Get back to us when any such fine is upheld. Or even laid.
#8
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#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
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#10
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Ham Sandwich Medallion
Posts: 889
Out of curiosity, why would you surrender your boarding pass? The TSA then has the opportunity to identify you by name and add you to Pistole's naughty list.
I'd suggest refusing to turn over your boarding pass, and instead ripping it in half on the spot as evidence of your intent to leave, then keeping it in your possession. Besides, surrendering your boarding pass doesn't mean much in these days where you can either print a new one at the ticketing counter or have a mobile BP sent to your phone.
I'd suggest refusing to turn over your boarding pass, and instead ripping it in half on the spot as evidence of your intent to leave, then keeping it in your possession. Besides, surrendering your boarding pass doesn't mean much in these days where you can either print a new one at the ticketing counter or have a mobile BP sent to your phone.
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DFW
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Posts: 926
Out of curiosity, why would you surrender your boarding pass? The TSA then has the opportunity to identify you by name and add you to Pistole's naughty list.
I'd suggest refusing to turn over your boarding pass, and instead ripping it in half on the spot as evidence of your intent to leave, then keeping it in your possession. Besides, surrendering your boarding pass doesn't mean much in these days where you can either print a new one at the ticketing counter or have a mobile BP sent to your phone.
I'd suggest refusing to turn over your boarding pass, and instead ripping it in half on the spot as evidence of your intent to leave, then keeping it in your possession. Besides, surrendering your boarding pass doesn't mean much in these days where you can either print a new one at the ticketing counter or have a mobile BP sent to your phone.
#13


Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Programs: All The Programs
Posts: 2,342
Incidentally - the DHS has its own police force. Wonder why they don't have one at every checkpoint in place of local police. If I recall, people have noted on FT that airports are subject to federal jurisdiction in legal matters at checkpoints vice local laws. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though.
#14
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
I had a similar experience and documented in on FlyerTalk and here:
tsanewsblog.com/?p=76
One important difference is that I refused both the scanner and the patdown. So I hadn't tripped any alarm, so to speak, when I double-opted-out and was allowed to leave the airport. But your story is very troubling to me because every time I walk into an airport I tell myself that if those lowlifes try to touch my body I'm out of there. I would rather walk home than let a stranger molest me. I understand you insisted and your TSO refused your refusal, but this tale is going to leave me with a huge amount of fear of being forcibly fondled. Surely they wouldn't grab you and rub you while you tried to run and push their hands away, would they?
tsanewsblog.com/?p=76
One important difference is that I refused both the scanner and the patdown. So I hadn't tripped any alarm, so to speak, when I double-opted-out and was allowed to leave the airport. But your story is very troubling to me because every time I walk into an airport I tell myself that if those lowlifes try to touch my body I'm out of there. I would rather walk home than let a stranger molest me. I understand you insisted and your TSO refused your refusal, but this tale is going to leave me with a huge amount of fear of being forcibly fondled. Surely they wouldn't grab you and rub you while you tried to run and push their hands away, would they?
#15
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Yep, there were definitely a half dozen of them hanging around. Which makes me wonder why it took TSA 15 minutes to bring one over.
Yeah, unfortunately it's not legal to revoke consent, apparently. Which is pretty scary and makes me wonder what is wrong with this country.
The good news is, there is another airport 45 miles away. I'm more than willing to drive that far to scope out their checkpoint and see if it's worth the drive (tsastatus.net is slim on information for that one).
ETA: And apparently the airport has the scanners now as well. Guess I'll be driving from now on.
One important difference is that I refused both the scanner and the patdown. So I hadn't tripped any alarm, so to speak, when I double-opted-out and was allowed to leave the airport. But your story is very troubling to me because every time I walk into an airport I tell myself that if those lowlifes try to touch my body I'm out of there. I would rather walk home than let a stranger molest me.
The good news is, there is another airport 45 miles away. I'm more than willing to drive that far to scope out their checkpoint and see if it's worth the drive (tsastatus.net is slim on information for that one).
ETA: And apparently the airport has the scanners now as well. Guess I'll be driving from now on.
Last edited by lovely15; Jun 16, 2012 at 2:24 pm

