declining pat down
Jun 16, 2012 | 2:20 pm
#16
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That's been a sticky point.
Jun 16, 2012 | 2:31 pm
#17
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DFW
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The legal answer to your final question is that it's not intended to be sexual assault and is an otherwise "reasonable" procedure, therefore it's not assault so long as they follow the approved agency protocol.
What goes unexplained is why someone must either submit themselves to indecent display of their body or - what they might consider to be - inappropriate touching just to get on an airplane.
What goes unexplained is why someone must either submit themselves to indecent display of their body or - what they might consider to be - inappropriate touching just to get on an airplane.
Does intent really matter in this case? You can sexually assault a drunk person, without having intent to assault them, because they can't consent - so what's the different here? Can consent be coerced? Rhetorical question of course, because in 2012, everything related to flying is coered.
And how can being touched in places that only one person has ever touched me before NOT be considered inappropriate? I felt violated and humiliated.
Maybe I'm being naive. I truly don't fly that often - my status is from multiple trips to Asia per year in J - but I honestly had no idea the enhanced patdowns consisted of touching, well, what it did. I've always been told touching genitals was a no-no, and that definitely happened.
Jun 16, 2012 | 3:13 pm
#20
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
I had a similar experience and documented in on FlyerTalk and here:
tsanewsblog.com/?p=76
One important difference is that I refused both the scanner and the patdown. So I hadn't tripped any alarm, so to speak, when I double-opted-out and was allowed to leave the airport. But your story is very troubling to me because every time I walk into an airport I tell myself that if those lowlifes try to touch my body I'm out of there. I would rather walk home than let a stranger molest me. I understand you insisted and your TSO refused your refusal, but this tale is going to leave me with a huge amount of fear of being forcibly fondled. Surely they wouldn't grab you and rub you while you tried to run and push their hands away, would they?
tsanewsblog.com/?p=76
One important difference is that I refused both the scanner and the patdown. So I hadn't tripped any alarm, so to speak, when I double-opted-out and was allowed to leave the airport. But your story is very troubling to me because every time I walk into an airport I tell myself that if those lowlifes try to touch my body I'm out of there. I would rather walk home than let a stranger molest me. I understand you insisted and your TSO refused your refusal, but this tale is going to leave me with a huge amount of fear of being forcibly fondled. Surely they wouldn't grab you and rub you while you tried to run and push their hands away, would they?
They are evil, but I don't see them going that far.
Jun 16, 2012 | 3:47 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IAH mostly.
Programs: I still call it Onepass every now and then. Platinum.
Posts: 500
Missed this the first time through...
Does intent really matter in this case? You can sexually assault a drunk person, without having intent to assault them, because they can't consent - so what's the different here? Can consent be coerced? Rhetorical question of course, because in 2012, everything related to flying is coered.
And how can being touched in places that only one person has ever touched me before NOT be considered inappropriate? I felt violated and humiliated.
Maybe I'm being naive. I truly don't fly that often - my status is from multiple trips to Asia per year in J - but I honestly had no idea the enhanced patdowns consisted of touching, well, what it did. I've always been told touching genitals was a no-no, and that definitely happened.
Does intent really matter in this case? You can sexually assault a drunk person, without having intent to assault them, because they can't consent - so what's the different here? Can consent be coerced? Rhetorical question of course, because in 2012, everything related to flying is coered.
And how can being touched in places that only one person has ever touched me before NOT be considered inappropriate? I felt violated and humiliated.
Maybe I'm being naive. I truly don't fly that often - my status is from multiple trips to Asia per year in J - but I honestly had no idea the enhanced patdowns consisted of touching, well, what it did. I've always been told touching genitals was a no-no, and that definitely happened.
Jun 16, 2012 | 4:17 pm
#22
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Seriously though, the reasons the courts have upheld searches of people who back out (same with U-turns before DUI checkpoints) is pretty obvious.
But, them with $11K+ in their pockets to burn on pranks are free to try.@:-)
Jun 16, 2012 | 4:32 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
How would you know whether there's an LEO at the checkpoint? Not all LEO's wear a uniform. More importantly, just like non-LEO private security, a TSO can certainly hold you for a LEO.
Seriously though, the reasons the courts have upheld searches of people who back out (same with U-turns before DUI checkpoints) is pretty obvious.
But, them with $11K+ in their pockets to burn on pranks are free to try.@:-)
Seriously though, the reasons the courts have upheld searches of people who back out (same with U-turns before DUI checkpoints) is pretty obvious.
But, them with $11K+ in their pockets to burn on pranks are free to try.@:-)
Jun 16, 2012 | 4:44 pm
#24
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Posts: 3,728
It should go without saying that anything said by a TSA employee should be taken with an entire shaker of salt, as they're generally untrustworthy.
Jun 16, 2012 | 6:14 pm
#25
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Hence you can imagine my shock when I found out the two striper was correct in saying I couldn't leave.
Jun 16, 2012 | 6:31 pm
#26
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Jun 16, 2012 | 7:46 pm
#27
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Does intent really matter in this case? You can sexually assault a drunk person, without having intent to assault them, because they can't consent - so what's the different here? Can consent be coerced? Rhetorical question of course, because in 2012, everything related to flying is coered.
Jun 16, 2012 | 7:51 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
How would you know whether there's an LEO at the checkpoint? Not all LEO's wear a uniform. More importantly, just like non-LEO private security, a TSO can certainly hold you for a LEO.
Seriously though, the reasons the courts have upheld searches of people who back out (same with U-turns before DUI checkpoints) is pretty obvious.
But, them with $11K+ in their pockets to burn on pranks are free to try.@:-)
Seriously though, the reasons the courts have upheld searches of people who back out (same with U-turns before DUI checkpoints) is pretty obvious.
But, them with $11K+ in their pockets to burn on pranks are free to try.@:-)
I'm not coming into the private hut with TSA clerks for a groin check, period. Not just to ride on an aircraft. And courts have not upheld personal gropes of people who decided they'd rather not fly. It's dishonest for you to claim this.
Jun 16, 2012 | 8:01 pm
#29
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Jun 16, 2012 | 9:10 pm
#30
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Airport cops are all in uniform, and if I have all my possessions a TSA checkpoint worker can NOT 'hold' me.