"M'am, you have to do what I tell you to do." My experience at ORD
Nov 30, 2011, 5:27 pm
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
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I guess I don't understand how the level of security theater in any way relates to a pilot having a gun in the cockpit. Not putting me through a metal detector when I could be carrying a 'concealed' weapon, yet groping me (50+ retired LEO Grandmother who flies 150,000 miles a year) somehow seems right to you?
Nov 30, 2011, 6:14 pm
#62
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 71
no... it just strikes me as ironic that a pilot (well, I think they're a pilot, they said being in the cockpit) mentioned they carry a gun in the cockpit with them... which obviously goes to show some sort of security paranoia, yet at the same time complain about invasive tsa searching.
Nov 30, 2011, 6:25 pm
#63
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 175
This is what anyone who complains about CCW falls back on. "Oh, they must be paranoid...why would ANYONE need to carry a gun". I hate to break it to you, but the same way TSA is ineffective at ensuring safety from terrorist attacks in flight, law enforcement on the whole is ineffective at preventing crime. They are VERY good at responding to it, collecting evidence and the judicial system is very good at prosecuting it. But they fail miserably at preventing it. (Which is not an attack on LEO's--it's attack on the system). Don't like the idea of CCW? You can fight to change the Constitution.
Dec 2, 2011, 7:17 am
#64
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
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no... it just strikes me as ironic that a pilot (well, I think they're a pilot, they said being in the cockpit) mentioned they carry a gun in the cockpit with them... which obviously goes to show some sort of security paranoia, yet at the same time complain about invasive tsa searching.
I certainly know I'd feel safer.
Dec 2, 2011, 10:29 am
#65
Join Date: May 2011
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Posts: 550
Guess they don't want anyone to remember how the WTMD was THE method just a few weeks ago.
I've also noticed that the airports getting new MMWs in past 6 weeks have WHOLEHEARTEDLY followed this procedure of "everyone goes through MMW", "WTMD is not used", and "anyone who won't go through our new machine is EVEN MORE SUSPECT".
Dec 2, 2011, 10:34 am
#66
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Up in the air far too often.
Programs: Star Gold
Posts: 354
Give me a break. I wouldn't.I fly a *lot.* Not 6 months goes by before I see two passengers yelling at each other or getting in some ridiculous tussle or near fight, because there are 300+ strangers cramped together in an aluminum tube. If guns were allowed on board they would be pulled out incessantly by self-righteous idiots. CCWs are easy to get and don't mean that the operator is in the least bit sane.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-01/t...r?_s=PM:TRAVEL
Dec 2, 2011, 11:26 am
#67
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Give me a break. I wouldn't.I fly a *lot.* Not 6 months goes by before I see two passengers yelling at each other or getting in some ridiculous tussle or near fight, because there are 300+ strangers cramped together in an aluminum tube. If guns were allowed on board they would be pulled out incessantly by self-righteous idiots. CCWs are easy to get and don't mean that the operator is in the least bit sane.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-01/t...r?_s=PM:TRAVEL
Maybe you would like to reference a story where a CCP holder was involved in an altercation and the firearm was used illegally. It does not have to be on a plane.
I have a CCP. It was not easy to get. I take my responsibility very seriously. Maybe all do not. Please cite a reference that we are as dangerous as the general population, if one exists.
Dec 2, 2011, 1:29 pm
#68
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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Dec 2, 2011, 2:21 pm
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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no... it just strikes me as ironic that a pilot (well, I think they're a pilot, they said being in the cockpit) mentioned they carry a gun in the cockpit with them... which obviously goes to show some sort of security paranoia, yet at the same time complain about invasive tsa searching.
Prison for man who lost TSA job over off-duty hate crime against Somali
A Minneapolis man who lost his job with the Transportation Security Administration for an off-duty assault of an elderly Somali man has been sentenced to six months in prison for the hate crime.
<>
Thompson then went into a neighborhood bar, where he was arrested. He was drunk and had two loaded firearms with him and a permit to carry them.
With TSA employees like this guy and Alvin Crabtree giving us responsible gun owners a bad name, perhaps a condition of TSA employment should be surrendering one's 2nd Amendment rights.
Dec 2, 2011, 2:31 pm
#70
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I did not read them all, but there are a significant number. A lot were not violent crimes, but many were.
Even though the info was put together by a biased source, I will not argue.
CCP holders are imperfect humans, just like everyone else.
Now, it may not be possible to know or find out, is the rate of violent crime greater, less or the same among CCP holders compared to the general population? I will try to research it.
In the meantime, let's trust the TSA to keep us secure.
Dec 2, 2011, 2:39 pm
#71
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Posts: 239
During a search of the home of reported concealed carry permit-holder
and terrorism suspect Anes Subasic, Federal agents found counterterrorism literature [?? Perhaps a bookmark to the TSA website, but regardless, this literature is not illegal], boxes of ammunition [also not illegal], knives [who here does not have a single knife in their dwelling?] and an empty box for a "super sniper" rifle scope [... is a "super sniper" rifle scope?].
Sensationalist drivel.
ETA: OK, super sniper is some stupid brand name. But it is still not illegal to own an empty box. And the agents didn't manage to find any guns in this dangerous individual's home.
Dec 2, 2011, 7:19 pm
#72
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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I'm sure the overwhelming majority of CCP holders are not an imminent threat although the potential always exists. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of airline passengers are well behaved and yet one only has to trawl sites like the Aviation Herald for daily doses of "unruly passenger" entries.
Not to turn this into OMNI/PR (where it's already been done to death), but loaded firearms have no place on airliners IMO. That includes the flight deck.
Dec 3, 2011, 4:55 am
#73
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
For sure the Brady trust is biased, but arguably no more so than those in favor of CCP.
I'm sure the overwhelming majority of CCP holders are not an imminent threat although the potential always exists. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of airline passengers are well behaved and yet one only has to trawl sites like the Aviation Herald for daily doses of "unruly passenger" entries.
Not to turn this into OMNI/PR (where it's already been done to death), but loaded firearms have no place on airliners IMO. That includes the flight deck.
I'm sure the overwhelming majority of CCP holders are not an imminent threat although the potential always exists. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of airline passengers are well behaved and yet one only has to trawl sites like the Aviation Herald for daily doses of "unruly passenger" entries.
Not to turn this into OMNI/PR (where it's already been done to death), but loaded firearms have no place on airliners IMO. That includes the flight deck.
Dec 3, 2011, 10:49 am
#74
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Up in the air far too often.
Programs: Star Gold
Posts: 354
Has nothing to do with the claims I made. Also what is with this "we" stuff? Filling out a form does not make you in some sort of club, or a different type of person. Regardless of the person currently holding it, having a gun on a plane has a potential to escalate a conflict if it is ever shown or used.I understand your position. It is a fair one, reasonably presented. I would contend that it is not the weapon that is dangerous, but the heart and thoughts of the person possessing it. The correction for that problem involves techniques that are far outside the capabilities and authority of the THS and DHS and prohibiting weapons on board is a reasonable compromise.
Dec 3, 2011, 11:16 am
#75
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Okay, that works.
....
CCP holders are imperfect humans, just like everyone else.
Now, it may not be possible to know or find out, is the rate of violent crime greater, less or the same among CCP holders compared to the general population? I will try to research it.
.
....
CCP holders are imperfect humans, just like everyone else.
Now, it may not be possible to know or find out, is the rate of violent crime greater, less or the same among CCP holders compared to the general population? I will try to research it.
.
Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes....
...
concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. Permit holders committed murder at 1/182 of the rate of the general public. And permit revocation rates are typically well below one-half of one percent, with the revocations almost never relating to the use or misuse of a gun.
...
concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. Permit holders committed murder at 1/182 of the rate of the general public. And permit revocation rates are typically well below one-half of one percent, with the revocations almost never relating to the use or misuse of a gun.