"M'am, you have to do what I tell you to do." My experience at ORD
Nov 19, 2011, 5:16 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2010
Programs: HGP/SPG: Apprentice Kettle; UA/AA/DL: Journeyman Kettle
Posts: 866
sure... all I see now is the following:
passenger arrives and opts out. gets asked to stand near the machine. tso either doesn't realize this or doesn't appreciate the op's concern. supervisor is called and agrees with op. op can move and stand in different place.
simple mistake or (completely innocent) lack of appreciation by the tso.
problem solved.
there is no evidence of punishment or retribution.
most productive output of this situation is that tso officer may now be aware of the sensitivites of some pax in this situation and in future will allow pax to stand away from the machine.
passenger arrives and opts out. gets asked to stand near the machine. tso either doesn't realize this or doesn't appreciate the op's concern. supervisor is called and agrees with op. op can move and stand in different place.
simple mistake or (completely innocent) lack of appreciation by the tso.
problem solved.
there is no evidence of punishment or retribution.
most productive output of this situation is that tso officer may now be aware of the sensitivites of some pax in this situation and in future will allow pax to stand away from the machine.
The passenger was treated rudely.
The passenger was placed in a position in which she was uncomfortable with the closeness of the scanner, the belt and passengers moving past her.
Yes, the passenger may have been emotional in her response to the TSO, but he was unsympathetic to her concerns.
The supervisor mediated the situation effectively.
See, we can discuss this without insulting the OP.
The passenger was placed in a position in which she was uncomfortable with the closeness of the scanner, the belt and passengers moving past her.
Yes, the passenger may have been emotional in her response to the TSO, but he was unsympathetic to her concerns.
The supervisor mediated the situation effectively.
See, we can discuss this without insulting the OP.
The passenger thinks he/she was treated rudely. The TSO either doesn't realize this or doesn't appreciate the op's concern. [Not everyone has the same level of sensitivity to or idea of what constitutes rudeness.]
The supervisor mediated the situation in favor of the passenger.
There is no objective evidence of punishment or retribution even though the passenger may feel otherwise.
Probable lessons learned:
OP: TSOs and TSA is as bad as or worse than originally thought.
TSO: Do my job as best I can because I have myself to feed, clothe, house and otherwise provide for a decent lifestyle.
We can discuss this without insulting the OP or placing blame on the TSO/TSA when we only have one side of the story.
Last edited by MIT_SBM; Nov 19, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Nov 19, 2011, 5:19 pm
#32
Join Date: Apr 2010
Programs: HGP/SPG: Apprentice Kettle; UA/AA/DL: Journeyman Kettle
Posts: 866
Didn't the problem solved come after the op was allowed to move? So the op would not be standing next to an non-independently tested radiation machine that may or may not be exposing the op to an unnecessary dose of radiation by simply standing to it as the op had moved to a position of the op's own choosing.
Nov 19, 2011, 6:16 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,411
the TSO is now aware that pax can stand in another place so that has been solved too. Shame it had to happen to the OP, but in future that TSO knows passengers can request to move.
We can't actually undo the OP standing next to the machine. That has happened and is in the past.
Nov 19, 2011, 7:04 pm
#34
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: SW Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors, Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 4,831
But what's a few unnecessary exposures to radiation amongst friends, I guess.
Nov 19, 2011, 7:07 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: SW Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors, Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 4,831
Didn't the problem solved come after the op was allowed to move? So the op would not be standing next to an non-independently tested radiation machine that may or may not be exposing the op to an unnecessary dose of radiation by simply standing to it as the op had moved to a position of the op's own choosing.
Good grief. Even my dentist flees the room and stands on the other side of the wall before taking x-rays of my teeth.
This isn't rocket science.
Well, I guess to the hired-from-a-pizza box TSOs, it actually is rocket science.
Nov 19, 2011, 8:17 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
skin color or any other physical attribute plays no part in this story and it's is very sad that people have to resort to that to garner support for an otherwise weak case.
...
and those that continually insult the intelligence of others, for not being a rhodes scholar for example... I just don't get it. attack the idea, not the person.
that's the truly intelligent way of winning an argument. guess some people on here haven't figured that out yet...
...
and those that continually insult the intelligence of others, for not being a rhodes scholar for example... I just don't get it. attack the idea, not the person.
that's the truly intelligent way of winning an argument. guess some people on here haven't figured that out yet...
If you think the average TSO worker is at the high end of the intelligence bell curve, I'm not going to disabuse you.
Go wag your finger somewhere else.
Nov 19, 2011, 11:06 pm
#37
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 959
Nov 19, 2011, 11:28 pm
#38
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
During most of my (frequent) opt-outs, I'm not satisfied with the place I am instructed to stand. (This is generally because I can't see my property on the belt, which is the same reason I won't go in there to being with.)
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
Nov 20, 2011, 12:56 am
#39
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Thinking around this thread a bit, as much as I am troubled by what happened to the OP, I think I am even more troubled by the fact that most of the TSOs give DHS and the TSA carte blanche regarding the veracity of the safety of the scanners.
There's no independent confirmation the machines are safe and the DHS won't allow TSOs to wear dosimeters. If I were a TSO, I would be exceptionally suspicious if my employer kept giving me the "just trust me" line instead of showing me independent confirmation the machines were safe or, at least, have a tool available that could determine if I was getting a dose of unnecessary radiation every time a traveler was scanned.
I guess people want to believe their employers, but I am genuinely concerned that in the next 10 years, we ware going to hear stories about TSO suffering health effects from machines that leaked radiation.
I said before and I will say again, there is a very good reason why your dentist puts a lead apron on you and leaves the room before he or she turns on the Xray machine to film your teeth.
There's no independent confirmation the machines are safe and the DHS won't allow TSOs to wear dosimeters. If I were a TSO, I would be exceptionally suspicious if my employer kept giving me the "just trust me" line instead of showing me independent confirmation the machines were safe or, at least, have a tool available that could determine if I was getting a dose of unnecessary radiation every time a traveler was scanned.
I guess people want to believe their employers, but I am genuinely concerned that in the next 10 years, we ware going to hear stories about TSO suffering health effects from machines that leaked radiation.
I said before and I will say again, there is a very good reason why your dentist puts a lead apron on you and leaves the room before he or she turns on the Xray machine to film your teeth.
Nov 20, 2011, 2:45 am
#40
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 78
The passenger was treated rudely.
The passenger was placed in a position in which she was uncomfortable with the closeness of the scanner, the belt and passengers moving past her.
Yes, the passenger may have been emotional in her response to the TSO, but he was unsympathetic to her concerns.
The supervisor mediated the situation effectively.
See, we can discuss this without insulting the OP.
The passenger was placed in a position in which she was uncomfortable with the closeness of the scanner, the belt and passengers moving past her.
Yes, the passenger may have been emotional in her response to the TSO, but he was unsympathetic to her concerns.
The supervisor mediated the situation effectively.
See, we can discuss this without insulting the OP.
I can abbreviate OPs story even further....
Went to fly.
Got TSA'd.
Hated it.
Nov 20, 2011, 1:12 pm
#41
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CVG/DAY
Programs: DL 2.945MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 386
During most of my (frequent) opt-outs, I'm not satisfied with the place I am instructed to stand. (This is generally because I can't see my property on the belt, which is the same reason I won't go in there to being with.)
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
Nov 20, 2011, 1:28 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
During most of my (frequent) opt-outs, I'm not satisfied with the place I am instructed to stand. (This is generally because I can't see my property on the belt, which is the same reason I won't go in there to being with.)
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
My solution is to simply stand in the place that I deem most appropriate. When the TSO balks, I simply tell them why I am standing there (without making eye contact, as I am watching my property on the belt). They're usually cool with that, but when they object, I simply don't care and refuse to negotiate on the point. They realize that despite their badge, they actually have no power to do anything about it. They generally give up there, and I always stand my ground until collected by the frisker.
So my advice to all is just to stand where you want, and if the TSO doesn't like it, tough titties for them. Stand your ground.
Nov 21, 2011, 12:08 am
#43
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
Yes, it is rather amusing when the TSO realizes that you realize that they have no actual power to make you do what they want. They are just used to people who "respect their authori-tay."
Flying out of BOS tomorrow... looking forward to my interview... need to concoct my entertaining narrative.
Flying out of BOS tomorrow... looking forward to my interview... need to concoct my entertaining narrative.
Nov 27, 2011, 4:42 pm
#44
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Monterey Bay Area
Programs: Independent Libertarian
Posts: 326
How To Describe tsa Agent?
IF a description of a tsa agent is used HOW should it be? 
IF he is male,black & overweight should you instead use: ebony complexion and
weighty for size??? And should Male be "appeared masculine"?
If someone on this forum chooses to describe a tsa agent for the benefit of others who may frequent that airport and who treated them incorrectly and which a Supervisor needed to correct their method of work.........do we need to worry about semantics for the relief of others who read into the report what they percieve as possible racism, bigotry or discrimination?
NOT FOR ME! NO, not for me!
IF he is male,black & overweight should you instead use: ebony complexion and
weighty for size??? And should Male be "appeared masculine"?
If someone on this forum chooses to describe a tsa agent for the benefit of others who may frequent that airport and who treated them incorrectly and which a Supervisor needed to correct their method of work.........do we need to worry about semantics for the relief of others who read into the report what they percieve as possible racism, bigotry or discrimination?
NOT FOR ME! NO, not for me!
Last edited by bajajoes; Nov 27, 2011 at 4:52 pm Reason: sp.
Nov 27, 2011, 4:52 pm
#45
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Delta Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Priority Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 93
Flying out in the AM tomorrow. I will not walk in the box, I will not walk through the box, and I will not stand in proximity to the box while others pass through (activating the box). I will take a stand in front of the box -- where no one else can pass and the box can not operate -- and wait for the junk groper to arrive before moving around the box to the frisk area...that is my plan. One, I will not be irradiated -- and two, the junk groper will arrive more quickly.