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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   What Does it mean when TSA Yells "Bravo"? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1244658-what-does-mean-when-tsa-yells-bravo.html)

TheRoadie Aug 9, 2011 2:24 pm

Then by gum it *is* a training process. But not for THEM, but for US! A damned Pavlovian authority-chest-pounding training exercise! They could be running BRAVO exercises every hour on a different audience, and unless we had FT members always in the area keeping track, we'd never connect the dots.

Even more reason, if you're past the checkpoint, to not participate.

Pesky Monkey Aug 9, 2011 10:06 pm


Originally Posted by 4nsicdoc (Post 16890018)
They would probably lie down on the floor kicking their feet and pounding the floor with their little blue hands, and screaming for their mommies.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...aughing002.gif

WillCAD Aug 10, 2011 5:15 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 16889688)
I've read a couple of accounts here on FT in which TSOs did exactly that.

So, what should you do if that happens? I mean, here are a bunch of government clerks, without police powers, with NO authority to detain you, physically blocking your way, thus falsely imprisoning you and massively exceeding their authority.

Naturally, if you barged through, they would press charges against you for battery. But how can one defend oneself against unlawful detention without physical contact, if the offenders are surrounding you?

Let's be more hypothetical. Suppose you were in a shopping mall, and the mall security guards surrounded you and refused to allow you to pass. What recourse would you have in that situation?

Vidiot Aug 10, 2011 6:35 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 16898763)
Suppose you were in a shopping mall, and the mall security guards surrounded you and refused to allow you to pass. What recourse would you have in that situation?

If they were not detaining me under shopkeeper's privilege on suspicion of shoplifting, then they have committed unlawful imprisonment. (IANAL.) Either way, I would demand to speak to an actual police officer, or call 911 myself.

PTravel Aug 10, 2011 7:06 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 16898763)
So, what should you do if that happens? I mean, here are a bunch of government clerks, without police powers, with NO authority to detain you, physically blocking your way, thus falsely imprisoning you and massively exceeding their authority.

I'd call for a LEO.


Let's be more hypothetical. Suppose you were in a shopping mall, and the mall security guards surrounded you and refused to allow you to pass. What recourse would you have in that situation?
In what state, and for what reason are they refusing to allow me to pass?

Pesky Monkey Aug 10, 2011 9:58 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 16898763)
So, what should you do if that happens? I mean, here are a bunch of government clerks, without police powers, with NO authority to detain you, physically blocking your way, thus falsely imprisoning you and massively exceeding their authority.

Naturally, if you barged through, they would press charges against you for battery. But how can one defend oneself against unlawful detention without physical contact, if the offenders are surrounding you?

Let's be more hypothetical. Suppose you were in a shopping mall, and the mall security guards surrounded you and refused to allow you to pass. What recourse would you have in that situation?

You just have to avoid the pylons like OJ Simpson in those old Hertz commercials.

G_Wolf Aug 15, 2011 8:10 am


Originally Posted by G_Wolf (Post 16888342)
So let's say I leave the C/P and go back landside. Is there anything preventing me from waiting 15-20 minutes, and then entering the line again? Or going to a different C/P and trying to enter there?

I'm still trying to figure this part out. Let's say I refuse a pat-down for me or my kid, and am asked to leave the C/P. What's stopping me from going back land-side, waiting a little while, and then going back to get re-screened?

jkhuggins Aug 15, 2011 8:46 am


Originally Posted by G_Wolf (Post 16926905)
I'm still trying to figure this part out. Let's say I refuse a pat-down for me or my kid, and am asked to leave the C/P. What's stopping me from going back land-side, waiting a little while, and then going back to get re-screened?

Chiefly, the memory of those at the checkpoint. Will they remember you? Maybe ... keep in mind that your refusal was (probably) an unusual event, and people have better memories for unusual events.

jackonferry Mar 1, 2012 11:09 am

Code Bravo exercise this morning at LAX
 
It happened at about 9.30am in terminal 7. I was not yet through security when the call was made. The exercise seemed to consist of more standing around than usual. After 3-4 minutes someone announced all clear and thanked us for participating in the exercise. No certificates of completion or appreciation were offered, however.

clrankin Mar 1, 2012 11:42 am


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18111416)
It happened at about 9.30am in terminal 7. I was not yet through security when the call was made. The exercise seemed to consist of more standing around than usual. After 3-4 minutes someone announced all clear and thanked us for participating in the exercise. No certificates of completion or appreciation were offered, however.

Did anyone decline to participate - i.e. those who were through security just ignoring and leaving, or those who were 'in process' deciding to turn around and leave? At the time, were you made to feel that you had the ability to decide to leave?

Just curiosity... Also wondering if some smart attorney-type could weigh in on whether or not something like this might constitute as false imprisonment (or some other type of illegal detainment) if passengers were made to feel as though they could not leave of their own volition.

jackonferry Mar 1, 2012 6:04 pm


Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 18111664)
Did anyone decline to participate - i.e. those who were through security just ignoring and leaving, or those who were 'in process' deciding to turn around and leave? At the time, were you made to feel that you had the ability to decide to leave?

I was far enough away from the machines and the people that had cleared through them that I could not tell if any intimidation or restraining was occurring. On my side of the line, I did notice that someone from TSA had moved in to the back of the line, presumably to attempt to prevent departures. I also saw one TSA agent lean over and tell one man, who was still loading his luggage on to the x-ray belt, to stop. Overall, it was very quiet and there was no yelling that I could hear. The weird part was all of the standing around by the TSOs. It's just not clear to me what kind of threat or security breach dictates that the entire TSA operation should remain motionless.

Caradoc Mar 1, 2012 7:38 pm


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18114351)
It's just not clear to me what kind of threat or security breach dictates that the entire TSA operation should remain motionless.

Maybe if someone dropped a cupcake, and they wanted to make sure it didn't get stepped on before it was confiscated...

clrankin Mar 1, 2012 7:39 pm


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18114351)
I was far enough away from the machines and the people that had cleared through them that I could not tell if any intimidation or restraining was occurring.

It's probably a safe bet that intimidation was occurring, if TSA was involved. They like it when people respect their nonexistent authority... makes 'em feel all important and tingly inside (kind of like eating a slice of pepperoni pizza). ;)


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18114351)
On my side of the line, I did notice that someone from TSA had moved in to the back of the line, presumably to attempt to prevent departures.

I wonder if that, coupled with telling someone who was scooping up their stuff to stop, could constitute some sort of illegal detainment. Personally I'd love to see someone sue the pants off TSA for this - it would make for some great headline news.


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18114351)
The weird part was all of the standing around by the TSOs.

So business as usual during a "bravo", then... :)


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 18114351)
It's just not clear to me what kind of threat or security breach dictates that the entire TSA operation should remain motionless.

Obviously one in which the alleged perp is sneaking away in slow motion, or one in which TSA expects the alleged perp to respect their "authority". Either of these scenarios are just as likely to happen. (Simple math: probability 0% = probability 0%.)

I wonder what they would do if when yelling "Bravo!" one responded by yelling "All clear!" and continued walking away. What can be started without cause can certainly be ended without cause, correct? ;)

HawaiiTrvlr Mar 1, 2012 8:02 pm

If the TSA yells "Bravo", is it appropriate to respond with "Sierra"?

sbrower Mar 2, 2012 10:14 am

When asked to state my last name, by TSA, it often comes out sounding like "Code Bravo" -


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