I just wonder how much authority a TSO has once you clear the checkpoint, the checkpoint area is their domain, no doubt about it, but once you leave the checkpoint area and they pull their code bravo game, if you disregard their demand to freeze, how far will it go.

They claim they are Federal Officers, but also have stated they do not have any law enforcement powers. We all know that they absolutely do not any authority to physically touch anyone without permission, if they do, then that would be an assault charge against them

I am sure some 3 striper or a suit will claim you disregarded the order of a Federal Transportation Security Officer, but without law enforcement powers, how legal is their claim.

Meter Maids in my town are known as Parking Enforcement Officers, they have the right to write parking summons, but that is all the power they have.

All terminal security is the domain of the local law enforcement agency that has jurisdiction at that airport, so if it comes down to a screener calling in an LEO because you disregarded their order to freeze, then how effective is it in the eyes of the LEO, I think that it would be up to the individual LEO as to which direction this would go.

This could be an interesting lawsuit if someone was arrested for disregarding a screener demands to freeze, especially since they are doing training using innocent passengers, some who could be scared out of their lives thinking someone has a bomb or a gun at the checkpoint.

Typical TSA stupidity.

Mr. Elliott

LEOs have firing ranges to practice. Pilots have simulators. Astronauts have the neutral buoyancy tank in Houston. Engineers have CAD simulations.

TSA has to interrupt LIVE airport operations populated with the PUBLIC to run their silly little tests? Something ain't right here.

It would be up to the individual LEO (for now, anyway), but some of them take direction from TSA.

And if Pistole gets his way, he'll have an armed LEO-TSA presence at all airports and then there absolutely will be no recourse.

At which point some of the more frustrated travelers may start taking direct action against TSA employees, wherever they may be found.

This is not legal advice.

Only LEOs have the power to detain, and only then upon a reasonable articulable suspicion. TSOs aren't LEOs.

That means nothing. As an attorney licensed to practice before federal district courts, I am an officer of the court. I can't detain anyone, either. The only power that I have that non-lawyers don't, is I can issue a subpoena for deposition or trial and sign it myself, rather than having the court sign it.

Correct. They have absolutely no law enforcement powers whatsoever.

They have no power to give orders or, more accurately, you have no obligation to follow them.

As parking enforcement officers, they have more power than a TSO, as parking enforcement officers can issue administrative fines. TSOs cannot.

I can't imagine a LEO citing or arresting anyone for simply ignoring "freeze" when yelled by a TSO. What would be the charge?

I've yet to hear of anyone arrested or threatened with arrest for not freezing during one of these exercises.

In my view, it's worse than that -- it's yet another attempt by TSA to extend their authority beyond the limits of the Constitution.

It is how they act out their roles as officious martinets.

(Hee Hee. I so love that phrase!)

I'd be partital FOXTROT UNIFORM in that case. :D

Ok, here's an interesting take on the whole thing then.

You clear the checkpoint, and as you are putting on your shoes you surreptitiously yell out "bravo" to see swat they do.

What then?

As others have said it is primarily a "show of force" to justify their existence.

As I said a bunch of times, when I was "disobeying them" my main concern was not arrest but a huge misunderstanding. The TSA's got *really agitated* and were following me and trying to get in my way, so I was worried about some "hero" passenger coming on the scene and tackling me (Flight 93 fought back!!!), or a cop coming over, and a TSA pointing vigorously to me, and the cop not understanding the situation and drawing his gun or something, thinking I sneaked past the checkpoint or was doing something actually suspicious.

I wanted to reach into my bag and get my camera but I dared not do that for obvious reasons once they really escalated the situation (again, I really didn't think the TSAH's would get so agitated.)

Secondly, I don't think they ever called the cops despite all their "threats" and me calling their bluff requesting a cop. As soon as the drill ended I saw several cops 100 feet away around the bend at a substation, who didn't even look at me. The TSA's didn't go in that direction. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I'm a middle aged cardiologist, all of the TSA agents appeared in their 20's in this case... Other people in different backgrounds / appearances might not be so lucky.

You will also turn yourself into an actor in the security theater -- with everybody else freezing, at least a couple dozen people were watching the TSA's yell at me. Most people looked kind of amused at the whole ordeal, but you might get a few pax also yelling at you, "HE SAID STOP, WHY DON'T YOU STOP SO WE CAN ALL GO" and that type attitude. Didn't happen to me though.

Then I would be guilty of disrupting the screening process.

Funny how that works when the tables are turned.

Actually, a lot of judges love that defense since it allows them to get rid of a case without much work. Rule Number 1 in the Rules of Procedure is: "Judges are lazy. Give them an easy way out and they will take it." Of course, there are some exceptions to that rule. As a former trial attorney, I don;t much like the 'Code Bravo results in heart attack' lawsuit. There are big foreseeability problems, as well as some real causation issues. And it really can't be framed as a 1983 or Bivens case. The 'you can't come into the sterile area to treat the pax , Mr. EMT' suit is more meritorious.

I'll hijack part of your response and ask a question that was asked earlier in the thread: where does the checkpoint end? Am I still technically in the checkpoint until my shoes are on and I'm walking away? Would they be able to pin "noncooperation" on me if all of my belongings have been checked and I kept on getting dressed while sitting on the metal bench? Am I still being "screened" at this point?

God, I hate that our country has come to this that we even have to worry about this nonsense...

I unfortunetly have a trip to either LAX or SAN coming up next month. It is one of those rare trips that I dont take unless I have no realistic choice everything else considered and I used to average 4 to 5 roundtrips a month for many years before I had enough of TSA and their "Bravo Sierra":mad:

If I encounter this at the checkpoint, I will verbally protest in a loud manner.

If I encounter this after being cleared at the checkpoint I will totally ignore the "bravo sierra":td: and will welcome the the interaction with the clerks that will occur and follow what CardioMD did in his encounter.

Of course if an LEO orders me to "freeze" I might consider it, but at the same time I KNOW some of my attorney friends would relish and practicly foam at the mouth over litigating this in court should I be arrested or given some kind of citation for ignoring "bravo sierra"^ ^

One of the TSA agents is auditioning for the Met Opera and the others are applauding his performance--isn't all the TSA just a performance in a play (or opera).:D:D:D

Not directly addressing your point, but this brings up the question of when and where the TSA can perform an administrative search. The CFR's talk about the screening checkpoints and getting on the plane, but no other place.

Perhaps by analogy that can be compared to internal border checkpoints. The Supreme Court said that permanent internal border checkpoints are free to stop anyone without suspicion, but roving patrols need at least reasonable suspicion before stopping a vehicle. In much the same way, at least reasonable suspicion would be needed prior to the TSA doing any search within the sterile area that does not occur at the screening checkpoint or while you are actually boarding the plane.

This is not a legal opinion, but a thought to consider.