Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to those incidents of no suspicion baggage searches as I would like to read about them further?

I thought they can give you direction on what to do during the screening process? If not, then what happens if they direct you to the AIT and you just start walking through the WTMD? Are you saying that they can't stop you or prevent you from entering the "sterile" area?

Then I'm a little confused by your statement. When they threaten Don't-Touch-My-Junk-Guy or others with fines, who would be levying the fines in those cases, if not the TSA?

This is just a guess, but I'd suspect the accusation would be interfering with the screening process. That seems to be the TSA's version of "contempt of cop".

That's right -- they can't. All they can do is call for a LEO, who will.

TSA does. TSOs don't.

Freezing in a terminal has nothing to do with the screening process. Regardless, I doubt that "interfering with the screening process" is even a citable criminal offense. The administrative fines levied by TSA are civil fines, not criminal ones. The most that the TSO can do is tell the LEO you are no longer permitted in the sterile area, at which point you'd be trespassing unless you leave immediately. Of course, if a TSO had me thrown out of the terminal for not freezing when they said I must because they were conducting a training exercise, I would take the matter to court.

Campbel incident at Laguardia


FLL gate rape reported by boggie dog a few days ago although it doesn't specify whether a baggage check was done or not.

gate rape including baggage search at seatac in march

there were so many of these surfacing after the laguardia incident, I believe. I'm surprised you didn't run across some.

I just don't recall seeing any on FlyerTalk, but I certainly could be mistaken.

As for the first one, it would appear that the screening of Ms. Campbell had not been completed at the screening checkpoint in the minds of the TSA, so this was an extension. But if the facts are as stated, TSA handled this poorly.

Boggie Dog's appeared to happen while standing in line for boarding, which is one of the two areas that the CFR's address. As such, I can't fault that one (though I disagree with it).

The action at SeaTac is the most problematic if searches of bags were being done randomly while passengers were seated at the gate. Now Ms. Morrison's bag was not searched, so we don't know exactly the circumstances of the other encounters she witnessed. Did the TSO ask before searching? If yes, then it became a consent search.

Thanks for the responses.

This part is interesting to me. If they can't stop someone from entering the "sterile" area, according to what you write, then how would they go about preventing someone from doing so, while waiting for a LEO to arrive?

In other words, let's say a TSO motions me to the AIT, and I instead start walking through the WTMD. What is actually in the TSO's powers to prevent me from walking through the WTMD, collecting my things, and walking away from the C/P?

While I think this BRAVO stuff is as silly as you, I'm not sure I agree with that statement. I could definitely see how it could be construed as part of the general screening process, actually.

So let's say I leave the C/P and go back landside. Is there anything preventing me from waiting 15-20 minutes, and then entering the line again? Or going to a different C/P and trying to enter there?

They couldn't. They have absolutely no power whatsoever to detain anyone. Only LEOs can do that and TSOs are not LEOs. They depend solely on pax cooperation, which is why they try to intimidate, dress up in fake police uniforms, etc. The interesting question is what would happen if a real terrorist shows up. Somehow, I don't think he would freeze.

Nothing. All he could do is call a LEO who, if he follows the law, would detain you, question you, ask you to identify yourself and, if you didn't create a disruption or refuse to follow the LEO's lawful orders, tell you that your right to be in the terminal was revoked, and you would be arrested for trespassing if you didn't leave immediately.

TSA claims that, once you've begun the screening process by presenting your boarding pass and ID to the TDC, you cannot refuse further screening. I am unaware of basis in law for physically forcing you to submit to screening. Perhaps there's some new CFR, but I'm unaware of it.

It's a training exercise. Period. Most cities have mandatory fire drills in large office buildings. They have municipal codes that require compliance on pain of citation. That's a training exercise in which those present are required by law to participate. I'm unaware of any basis in the CFRs for requiring anyone to participate in TSA training exercises for their own TSOs, nor is there any legal basis under which a TSO can detain you.

So let's say I leave the C/P and go back landside. Is there anything preventing me from waiting 15-20 minutes, and then entering the line again? Or going to a different C/P and trying to enter there?[/QUOTE]

While I am sure *you* know the technical error in this statement, others may not. The TSOs actually do have the power to detain/arrest (to the same degree as any other non-peace officer citizen), but it is my understanding that it is strictly against TSA policy for them to utilize that power.

To clarify, any non-LEO may perform a citizen's arrest. However, by doing so, you expose yourself to liability for false imprisonment, battery, assault, and even kidnapping if, in fact, you are wrong about the circumstances that you think support the arrest. Moreover, any TSO that did so would almost certainly be acting outside the scope of his employment and therefore lose any immunity that applies to government employees.

Would they be acting in the capacity of a TSA employee or private citizen?

I guess my question was more practically about what would actually happen. Would a bunch of TSO's try to surround you to prevent your movement? Would they scream and holler? Or what?

Stopping an escalator or people mover is a great way to get someone hurt. Your mind is telling you should feel one thing, while your body tells you something else.

I think they would try to surround you, daring you to run into them to break through. While the LEO comes.

If you get loose, and they lose sight of you, they'll call a terminal dump, out of an abundance of caution, and then thousands of people will hate you if you ever are identified.

I swear half the over-reactions (terminal dumps, scrambling F16s, etc) are done PURELY for theatre by the drama llamas in a lame attempt to inflate the criticality of the initial offense, purely by the over-the-top reaction. EXACTLY same syndrome as soccer players falling down in fake agony to "sell" the alleged foul.

I've read a couple of accounts here on FT in which TSOs did exactly that.

They would probably lie down on the floor kicking their feet and pounding the floor with their little blue hands, and screaming for their mommies.