Concern about increased airport security in Australia
Jul 5, 2013, 2:16 am
#211
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Has anyone noticed how they react to people saying they medically can't use the scanner? ("can't hold and assume position" etc)
It isn't "reasonable". The issue is that all through the public consultation, the government maintained that there would be an opt out. All the discussion and planning during the consultation and testing process was made on that understanding. They then changed their mind with no warning when the bill was tabled, then went on to ignore every single public submission about it.
It isn't "reasonable". The issue is that all through the public consultation, the government maintained that there would be an opt out. All the discussion and planning during the consultation and testing process was made on that understanding. They then changed their mind with no warning when the bill was tabled, then went on to ignore every single public submission about it.
Last edited by Himeno; Jul 5, 2013 at 2:21 am
Jul 6, 2013, 2:50 pm
#212
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 580
My concern is that they changed the layout. The old layout seemed to be one where you could, with some effort, avoid a body scanner by going to certain lanes. Now, it seems like they have more body scanners. Are they moving in the path of the US toward gradually making body scanner use the default?
Regarding Himeno's comment--I agree with him. My question is whether there is any possibility of people convincing the government at some point to add an opt-out option, or if this is basically how it will be from now on.
Does anyone know whether there are other airports at which the layout may make it easier to avoid body scanners (perhaps Cairns or Brisbane)? Are there any minor airports that have any international flights for which one can avoid a body scanner? I know that the Sunshine Coast airport has seasonal service to New Zealand, but since the service is only seasonal, I am not sure what one can do the rest of the year.
Regarding Himeno's comment--I agree with him. My question is whether there is any possibility of people convincing the government at some point to add an opt-out option, or if this is basically how it will be from now on.
Does anyone know whether there are other airports at which the layout may make it easier to avoid body scanners (perhaps Cairns or Brisbane)? Are there any minor airports that have any international flights for which one can avoid a body scanner? I know that the Sunshine Coast airport has seasonal service to New Zealand, but since the service is only seasonal, I am not sure what one can do the rest of the year.
Jul 6, 2013, 6:19 pm
#213
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,068
It's possible, at least for international flights. I just hope domestic flying within Australia stays a hassle free experience. Domestic air travel in Australia always pleasant compared to the circus while flying domestically within the US.
Jul 7, 2013, 12:20 am
#214
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Her. :/
Who knows. I have told every politician I care to contact that they have lost my vote and have no way to get it back until the scanners are removed.
Their plan was, like the UK, to install scanners at every terminal in Australia which has international flights.
Most people are looking for info on the SYD layout because SYD has just over 50% of all flights to/from Australia. I would prefer to avoid SYD, but most of the flights I want require departing via SYD. It is easier for me to return via another airport (normally MEL).
The thing is, every time I ask someone who has recently been through SYD T1 departures, I hear something different about the scanners.
Right now, I'm worried about what will happen with CBR. They are currently building the new international part of CBR with permanent international handling areas (and shared I/D gates) rather then the temporary options they had with the old terminal. The new terminal was designed after the body scanner trials started (but before the bill was tabled last year).
I never did get an answer to what happens with people who must leave the country, but refuse to use the scanner. With the .......s we have leading this country, they'll likely get taken to Villawood and put in the Immigration Detention Centre until they agree to the violation of the UN Human Rights Charter.
My question is whether there is any possibility of people convincing the government at some point to add an opt-out option, or if this is basically how it will be from now on.
Does anyone know whether there are other airports at which the layout may make it easier to avoid body scanners (perhaps Cairns or Brisbane)? Are there any minor airports that have any international flights for which one can avoid a body scanner? I know that the Sunshine Coast airport has seasonal service to New Zealand, but since the service is only seasonal, I am not sure what one can do the rest of the year.
Most people are looking for info on the SYD layout because SYD has just over 50% of all flights to/from Australia. I would prefer to avoid SYD, but most of the flights I want require departing via SYD. It is easier for me to return via another airport (normally MEL).
The thing is, every time I ask someone who has recently been through SYD T1 departures, I hear something different about the scanners.
Right now, I'm worried about what will happen with CBR. They are currently building the new international part of CBR with permanent international handling areas (and shared I/D gates) rather then the temporary options they had with the old terminal. The new terminal was designed after the body scanner trials started (but before the bill was tabled last year).
I never did get an answer to what happens with people who must leave the country, but refuse to use the scanner. With the .......s we have leading this country, they'll likely get taken to Villawood and put in the Immigration Detention Centre until they agree to the violation of the UN Human Rights Charter.
Last edited by Himeno; Jul 7, 2013 at 12:25 am
Jul 7, 2013, 6:37 pm
#215
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,795
It isn't "reasonable". The issue is that all through the public consultation, the government maintained that there would be an opt out. All the discussion and planning during the consultation and testing process was made on that understanding. They then changed their mind with no warning when the bill was tabled, then went on to ignore every single public submission about it.
That's because it's changing quickly. In April there were only two MMWs (see my 5 April post, above). In mid-June there were several (2? 4?) lanes in the middle walled off for construction (presumably for installation of MMW) and the others had on MMW for two WTMD.
Jul 7, 2013, 11:16 pm
#216
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 17,976
Has anyone noticed how they react to people saying they medically can't use the scanner? ("can't hold and assume position" etc)
It isn't "reasonable". The issue is that all through the public consultation, the government maintained that there would be an opt out. All the discussion and planning during the consultation and testing process was made on that understanding. They then changed their mind with no warning when the bill was tabled, then went on to ignore every single public submission about it.
It isn't "reasonable". The issue is that all through the public consultation, the government maintained that there would be an opt out. All the discussion and planning during the consultation and testing process was made on that understanding. They then changed their mind with no warning when the bill was tabled, then went on to ignore every single public submission about it.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Jul 7, 2013, 11:18 pm
#217
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,607
I can actually answer this.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Jul 8, 2013, 5:21 am
#218
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
I can actually answer this.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Hopefully this works in September/October. I have 2 SYD T1 departures in the space of 3 weeks.
Jul 9, 2013, 12:29 am
#219
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
I can actually answer this.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Yesterday, at SYD, I was asked to go through the scanner. I asked why. The screener told me it was random. (He chose who went through the scanner, so that's their "random" criterion.) I told him I didn't want to. He said that I had no choice. As I was approaching, I told the screener operating the scanner that I was unable to assume the position. He asked if I told this to the screener who instructed me to go through the scanner. I said that I didn't. He then consulated with the other screener and they has a two minute discussion. He finally told me that I could go through the metal detector but that I would need additional screening. I said fine.
Went through the metal detector without issue and was taken to the residue machine area. Random parts of my clothing were tested all with one swab (shirt, pants, hands, etc.). After I passed that, he said that he would have to do a patdown. That lasted aboutt 30 seconds and it was not evasive at all. No touching of or near private areas, just arms and legs. Hadn't taken out my wallet and other items from my pants pockets and that didn't matter to him whatsoever.
I was then free to go.
Did they ask why you were "unable" to assume the position? I would not be comfortable lying about a rotator cuff injury, but I would be telling the truth if I said I were unable to assume the position because of moral or privacy reasons.
Jul 9, 2013, 9:08 pm
#221
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,795
You step into a glass sided booth, put your hands over your head like a criminal being arrested, wait for the security person to tell you it's over, and step out.
- If there's no alarm, you're done in ~30 seconds or so. Still slower than the traditional walk through metal detector (WTMD) but physically painless. (Mental anguish over the inefficiency, cost and unnecessary invasiveness is additional.)
- If there's an alarm and they pat you down (statistics suggest this happens for about half of passengers) but don't find anything, so they say you can go, it's going to take longer. Maybe 1 to 2 minutes. Much slower than the the WTMD but physically painless. (For an Australian standard patdown; some US style patdowns have been reported to cause physical pain.) Whether you find being patted down to determine that the pleats in your slacks are not a bomb "painful" or not is up to you.
- If there's an alarm and they pat you down and find an insulin pump, an ostomy bag, a breast prosthesis, an unusual scar, an artificial limb, a female sanitary item, one leg different in size to the other, or any of a number of medical devices/conditions that you would have preferred to keep private, and if they make a big fuss about this (reports in the US include removing breast prostheses, puncturing an ostomy bag and soaking the passenger in his own urine, shouting to another screener about an adult diaper and other atrocities), I guess most people would find that painful. And it's not going to be at all quick.
Plus, the machines are ineffective; they alarm on lots of innocent things and miss potentially dangerous things.
Jul 11, 2013, 11:59 am
#223
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,217
It's not a legal requirement but airlines, like any other business, can establish additional requirements that they apply to their customers.
Jul 11, 2013, 10:31 pm
#224
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,795
On the (now rare) occasions I've checked in at a desk I've used my QFF (non-photo) card. Maybe they've asked for an ID so they get the spelling of your name right when they look up your booking?
Jul 13, 2013, 1:40 pm
#225
Used to be Sydneysider
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: CPH
Programs: AS MVP/Gold (and 75K aspirant)
Posts: 2,984
Many thanks to iluv2fly for the up-to-date report.
I love Australia, and would very much like to get back there to visit, as it's been a few years. However as an ardent opponent of the scanners I have a hard time going somewhere with no opt out (Britain is also on my travel black list).
If I ever go again, I'll try to medical opt out, but will also be prepared to cool my heels in Australian immigration jail for a while. Would make for a very interesting blog post, at least...
I love Australia, and would very much like to get back there to visit, as it's been a few years. However as an ardent opponent of the scanners I have a hard time going somewhere with no opt out (Britain is also on my travel black list).
If I ever go again, I'll try to medical opt out, but will also be prepared to cool my heels in Australian immigration jail for a while. Would make for a very interesting blog post, at least...