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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Pat Downs-Breasts question (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1161591-pat-downs-breasts-question.html)

danl08 Dec 22, 2010 10:13 am


Originally Posted by JennyElf (Post 15503836)
Except when the Dr or EMT does anything to me, it's because I'm displaying symptoms of something being wrong in that area.

BINGO. These guys are running tests for things on everyone assuming that they will find one of the very few who may have a problem. This is akin to testing everyone for a disease with a a very invasive procedure regardless of whether or not you have displayed any of the symptoms or risk profiles of someone who actually does have the disease. They could actually learn something from the medical field if they chose to.

nachtnebel Dec 22, 2010 10:40 am

thanks for the welcome
 

Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 15503742)
Belated welcome to nachtnebel - and sorry that the absurdity of this thread is the reason you decided to post!

thanks much for the welcome exbayern. Yet is it not the case that it isn't the thread that is absurd, but rather it is the recent behavior of the TSA in this area that is simply incomprehensible. I no longer fly as a result of their invasive policies. My college age "children" (ok they're now young adults) take trains to and from college on semester breaks (a LOOOONG train ride, btw) because they, being female don't want to be felt up or looked at naked by some creep in a booth and endure radiation whose safety is not even known yet. No matter how much people like Dr. Eyecue claim to be clinically disinterested, just like your gynecologist. That's rich.

Now, I don't want to beat up Eyecue just because he has an opinion different than mine. I just want him to know how violated I and my family feel, and that is a pain that will probably never go away even after he and his kind STOP. And I want him and his kind to know how firmly we are resolved to stop these filthy practices of the TSA. Napolitano and Pistole claim travelers are "Getting used" to it. WE will never accept it.

Loren Pechtel Dec 22, 2010 10:52 am


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15500614)
IF you wear a bra, and most women do then you can thank those lovely people that test us EVERYDAY with small items in the bra. An officer has to press hard on that area in order to detect those items. IF they miss it then they get the bad thing on their record. Granted if TSA could use another method to check that area then we would not have to press that hard. But when we are searching for something that can be 1/2 inch long and 3/16 inch wide a lot of pressure has to be placed on the area.

Virtually everyone that wears a bra also has a vagina that could easily conceal something of that size.

You're putting a major lock on a glass door.

exbayern Dec 22, 2010 10:54 am


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 15504271)
Virtually everyone that wears a bra also has a vagina that could easily conceal something of that size..

And many of them wear underpants, or socks, or stockings as well as a bra.

Loren Pechtel Dec 22, 2010 10:57 am


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 15501392)
I have asked a few times what level of first aid training TSOs receive, and went to do a search. The answer I found was even more disturbing - not only would it appear that they do not receive training, but they are not permitted to provide assistance unless excused from their duties by a supervisor or a manager.

This actually makes sense. It's a standard ploy to fake an emergency of some kind in order to draw security people away from their job.


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 15504289)
And many of them wear underpants, or socks, or stockings as well as a bra.

But many of the people wearing underpants or socks don't have a vagina.

I do agree that the other areas are also possible hiding places although it would tend to cause a more obvious bump in such areas.

I do agree the primary motivation is punishment of opt-outs, though.

exbayern Dec 22, 2010 11:02 am


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 15504317)
This actually makes sense. It's a standard ploy to fake an emergency of some kind in order to draw security people away from their job.

But those same people are handling people with medical issues and handling or removing (or damaging) medical devices or dressings. They obviously don't have the knowledge or the skills, as also evidenced here.

The policy on dealing with emergencies may make sense but the knowledge level required to handle those customers and those devices is not sufficient. There are many reports of TSOs causing more harm and pain to customers due to their lack of knowledge or lack of interest or concern.

TheGolfWidow Dec 22, 2010 11:09 am


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 15504317)
This actually makes sense. It's a standard ploy to fake an emergency of some kind in order to draw security people away from their job.

That is exactly what's happening. Probing for postage stamps in bras draws the security people away from the real threats.

FliesWay2Much Dec 22, 2010 1:00 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15500614)
IF you wear a bra, and most women do then you can thank those lovely people that test us EVERYDAY with small items in the bra. An officer has to press hard on that area in order to detect those items. IF they miss it then they get the bad thing on their record. Granted if TSA could use another method to check that area then we would not have to press that hard. But when we are searching for something that can be 1/2 inch long and 3/16 inch wide a lot of pressure has to be placed on the area.

I'll bet you've found lots of joints and roaches this way. Oh, that's right -- you're not looking for drugs.

Drince88 Dec 22, 2010 1:22 pm

1/2 inch x 3/16 inch is smaller than a 'regular' size paperclip. WHAT in heavens name could I do with something that small to threaten the security of the plane? Heck, I'd just put it right under my underwire (that has at times alarmed the WTMD) - since that's wider than 3/16"!

oboshoe Dec 22, 2010 3:52 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15500697)
Saturate and displace. Did you see the news about tainting salad bars? Airports are not a soft target anymore.

oh please. You want to know where a soft target at the airport is?

The TSA check point itself.

When TSA has hundreds of people lined up to get groped and irradated, that entire area is as soft as it gets.

And if the day ever comes that a TSA agent does actually find a bomb on a person, you should fully expect that this person will detonate it the moment it is detected killing the TSA agent that finds it, plus the other hundreds of innocents standing around waiting.

That my friend is a soft target and with the cross hairs directly on you.

AUS2008 Dec 22, 2010 4:47 pm


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 15503913)
AUS, I understand your frustration, but in the absence of any intelligent, qualified radiologists on this website we just have to rely on the wisdom of TSOs.










:p

I suppose... :rolleyes:
But we must watch out for cashews tucked away in bras, too!

Merry Christmas, my friend! Safe and unmolested travels! I'm almost done for the year, and will probably switch my next trip to a drive. More due to flight timing than TSA, but that is an additional factor.

Cholula Dec 22, 2010 8:12 pm


Originally Posted by oboshoe (Post 15506658)
oh please. You want to know where a soft target at the airport is?

The TSA check point itself.

When TSA has hundreds of people lined up to get groped and irradated, that entire area is as soft as it gets.

And if the day ever comes that a TSA agent does actually find a bomb on a person, you should fully expect that this person will detonate it the moment it is detected killing the TSA agent that finds it, plus the other hundreds of innocents standing around waiting.

That my friend is a soft target and with the cross hairs directly on you.


Spot on.

Pretty hard to post a meaningful rebuttal to this statement.

Such a scenario will, IMO, occur at some point and then we get the extra, Israeli-type screening at all public entrances which will, in effect, shut-down American commerce as we know it.

And the terrorists will win once again.

janetdoe Dec 22, 2010 8:33 pm


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 15504271)
Virtually everyone that wears a bra also has a vagina that could easily conceal something of that size.

Yup - smaller than a tampon (or a suppository for the men). I can guarantee you I regularly insert objects larger than that into my vagina, and walk around all day effortlessly, but I would consider it very uncomfortable to stash anything in my bra. If TSA is not doing cavity searches, what is the point of searching for objects this size? That's like putting iron bars across the windows and leaving the front door wide open. (or the back door ;))


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 15501428)
I undressed the other night after a flight and when I removed my bra a cashew fell to the ground. :o

I had a fleeting image of stashing some gummy worms in my bra for my next airport trip.

TSO: What is this?
JD: Oh I wondered where those went. <pops one in mouth> Want one?

Sorority Luchesi Dec 22, 2010 8:37 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15500260)



If you ask the more radical thinkers on here they would have you believe that a terrorist would have breast removal surgery and then implant explosives under the skin.
In reality though the breast can and has been used to hide many things including guns and knives. When they are capable of doing this because of their nature they will be checked further.

People can hide stuff anywhere on their body. I think that most of the people on here don't realize just how cunning and creative people can be if they really are intent on smuggling something past security and it's not just bombs and explosive which are highly unlikely but more than likely would be illegal substances.

janetdoe Dec 22, 2010 8:47 pm


Originally Posted by Sorority Luchesi (Post 15508094)
People can hide stuff anywhere on their body. I think that most of the people on here don't realize just how cunning and creative people can be if they really are intent on smuggling something past security

No need to be creative when there are body cavities. :confused:

Originally Posted by Sorority Luchesi (Post 15508094)
it's not just bombs and explosive which are highly unlikely but more than likely would be illegal substances.

No doubt - but TSA should only be concerned with threats that could bring down a plane. Sure I can hide a joint in several places on my person, but that doesn't mean TSA has any business finding it, or designing searches that detect contraband other than weapons, incendiaries, and explosives (WEI). :mad:


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