I have asked a few times what level of first aid training TSOs receive, and went to do a search. The answer I found was even more disturbing - not only would it appear that they do not receive training, but they are not permitted to provide assistance unless excused from their duties by a supervisor or a manager. http://www.consumertraveler.com/toda...tion%E2%80%9D/

The fact that the TSA appears to actually discourage TSOs from any form of medical training and yet we have TSOs comparing themselves to EMS or physicians is very telling indeed.

On groping breasts...
And thus your epic failure is exposed. The TSA has allocated billions of dollars to trash our Constitution and basic human dignities to grope innocent people digging for objects smaller than an aspirin under the fantastic delusion that some amazing unknown terrorist device the size of a nickel can be placed in a bra to bring down a 757.

This is fraud, waste and abuse at it's finest.

I undressed the other night after a flight and when I removed my bra a cashew fell to the ground. :o

Apparently it is a good thing that I only ate nuts during my flight as I cannot imagine what sort of response a stray nut in my bra would have caused at the checkpoint.

(Of course, some may use my cashew story to support the argument of why breasts must be examined in this fashion)

"[Female breasts are] no different than a male with a large belly that hangs over the belt." --Eyecue

To whom? Only to the twisted. The female breast is a (secondary) sexual organ. As such it has always been protected by laws in our culture and has requirements for proper covering. As a sexual organ, it is intimately tied to the personhood and dignity of its owner. To equate this to a man's belly is ridiculous.

"You all are attaching the sexuality to it. To us it is just a part of the body that needs to be checked." --Eyecue

It is our sexual organ. It is part of our privacy. Who in the hell cares what it is to YOU. It does not belong to YOU.

"When you are in an accident and the paramedics check your chest for flail or other injuries involving personal areas, are you going to object?" --Eyecue

I have the power to object and refuse treatment. It is I who allow them to treat me or if unconscious am considered to have allowed them to treat me, as it is customary to expect a person to want to be treated and live. You, who paw my sex organs, provide no such benefit that I want, and I do not want your services in any way shape or form, yet you coerce me into this at gunpoint--being stranded at an airport. "Don't Fly" when it is our livelihood? Don't live is more like it.

:eek: Suppose you KNEW that the pilot had a serious tree nut allergy and you had bribed a FA to let you get into the cockpit where you were going to [somehow - work out some details for this part] force the pilot to eat the single cashew while the co-pilot was [hmm, have to do something about this part of the scenario - what are the chances that both the pilot and co-pilot have serious tree nut allergies? - but oh wait, you've only got ONE cashew.....]

Yeah, that could be real dangerous to air travelers. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

With the chosen profession of "molesting people for money," I think that's a given.

The claim that the molestation somehow results in increased security or safety for the passenger is ridiculous on its face.

I'm a nursing mother - I can assure you that I don't sexualize breasts. I breastfeed in public, at that. Yet I would be terribly upset if a TSO had the audacity to demand that I "lift and separate" my breasts so that they could be more thoroughly groped. You are not a physician, nurse, or other medical professional.

But I digress...why does a large belly or other fat flap require groping, when anyone determined to get a weapon, explosive, or incendiary through security has a convenient body cavity or two that it can be shoved into? A woman stashing an SD card or chapstick in her bra should not be the TSA's concern - perhaps Customs or Border Patrol at a border, but not TSA. TSA's purview is supposed to encompass weapons, explosives, and incendiaries - you're not taking down a plane with a flash drive or a chapstick.

Explosives detection technology is a far better avenue for detecting explosives than scanners that are of dubious value and cause law-abiding travelers to have to worry about whether or not their maxi pad, insulin pump, urostomy, or even an article of clothing like a bra or a skirt will result in a humiliating pat down.

TSOs with medical training might question the safety of the backscatter scanners and other X-ray exposure they're getting while working the line.

Did you really just compare TSO to doctors? Ok, I can see that.

and exactly how many guns have been found lurking in bras over the past year or so? Who care about knives since they can't do any harm to the STEEL REINFORCED LOCKED DOORS to the cockpit anyways.

Ugh. I am just about fed up with all the comparing of TSA to physicians, between the xray use and the physicality of the pat-downs. (not aiming at you, danl08, just using your quote as a bridge)

They have nothing to do with each other. And any comparison is just insulting. When someone...a patient...goes to the doctor and gets a physical exam and perhaps xrays or other imaging...there is a REASON to do it. First of all, the patient willingly goes in for care, and has a symptom to be resolved. Then, further workup is done, if indicated. And all of this is by people with years of training.

TSA...is treating everyone as if there is something to resolve, with very little training.

I'm sure there is someone here in my hometown who has pneumonia right this minute. If I suggested that even 1000 randomly selected people each day (much less hundreds of thousands) come in to all get a chest xray to try to find the person with pneumonia, that would be considered ludicrous. It might make a little more sense if I required everyone with a cough to get an xray. But more sense indeed, if people had a cough, fever and rales on exam.
TSA seriously needs to consider some way to narrow down their search. Oh, but that would require intelligence. My bad.

:D

I was thinking that the claim could be that my nut was hiding a tiny detonator.

I like your version of the fantasy better - much more plausible! ;)

And both versions are possible justification for such searches, aren't they?

What you're describing is more analogous to objecting to a rough, improper examination by a paramedic and then being threatened with "Do you want a ride to the hospital today?" And then having your doctor tell you afterward that the man who had been posing as a paramedic was actually a cab driver who once saw an episode of ER.

Belated welcome to nachtnebel - and sorry that the absurdity of this thread is the reason you decided to post!

Except when the Dr or EMT does anything to me, it's because I'm displaying symptoms of something being wrong in that area. If I'm bleeding from my torso, sure, they'll check my chest and back for wounds, but they aren't going to check my genitals to see if those are injured unless there is some evidence that there might be injury there (bruising leading from torso to genitals or more signs of bleeding). If I've only just collapsed and I'm not showing any symptoms, they'll start with the standard airways and maybe chest compressions if needed, but again no manipulation of my breasts or genitals unless there is further evidence there might be something wrong. If I come in for a cough, the doctor doesn't tell me to get naked first or have a full body CT or MRI from the very beginning, they narrow it down to what is needed.

The TSA just does a full pat-down or body scan w/o having symptoms or any logic of why a pat-down or scan is needed. The TSA just thinks we might be hiding something, somewhere. No logic or evidence, but we'll just check you out fully just in case. It's passing by my doctor's office and them doing a full work up just in case something is wrong with me even if I don't seem to have any symptoms at all or any medical history that indicates I have anything to worry about.

AUS, I understand your frustration, but in the absence of any intelligent, qualified radiologists on this website we just have to rely on the wisdom of TSOs.










:p