Call to arms.
Jan 17, 2010, 9:49 am
#317
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Its not like we can see Jacksons picture on the XRay Screen, we see a organic block that could be a book, an explosive, a stack of cash, or just a durned newspaper. And since the possibility exists that it may be an explosive, the administrative search process remains unblemished.
Feel better now?
Jan 17, 2010, 9:58 am
#318
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,054
That would imply TSA should be hand searching almost every carry-on bag.
Because travelers never have book or newspapers in their bags, and apparently TSO can't distinguish them from explosives via x-ray...
Jan 17, 2010, 10:05 am
#319
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
This is highly inaccurate. Where my cash goes or does not go is none of the business of the federal government. It has no right to track cash that I or anyone else spends or hides away, once I have paid taxes due on earnings. The only government interest in my cash is: Did I pay the appropriate tax on any income that I made? If the answer is yes, the government's interest in my cash ends. Whether I spend it on peanut butter or rare diamonds. The government may like to know where my cash came from but it is none of its business, as long as it was properly declared and I have paid the appropriate income tax on it.
Destroy a single dollar bill and you can be prosecuted for destroying government property. You don’t own the cash, the government does. The government backs it, secures it to ensure that its value is not reduced by fraud or counterfeiting, guarantee’s that the face value is backed by the full weight of the US government, and that the real value that your one dollar bill represents is backed by some tangible asset.
IOW, it’s the governments cash. It represents something of value, be that time, energy, metals, or information. What it represents may be yours, but the instrument itself belongs to the government.
Jan 17, 2010, 10:10 am
#320
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Tommy my boy, if you ever get the chance take a look at a TSA x-ray screen. Let us know what you see. Exactly what you see. Then come tell us about what IS and IS NOT possible.
Jan 17, 2010, 10:18 am
#322
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FrostByte Falls, Mn
Programs: Holiday Inn Plat NW gold AA gold
Posts: 2,157
You cannot be prosecuted for destroying your own personal property, as long as you are not attempting commit some crime by doing so.
Destroy a single dollar bill and you can be prosecuted for destroying government property. You don’t own the cash, the government does. The government backs it, secures it to ensure that its value is not reduced by fraud or counterfeiting, guarantee’s that the face value is backed by the full weight of the US government, and that the real value that your one dollar bill represents is backed by some tangible asset.
IOW, it’s the governments cash. It represents something of value, be that time, energy, metals, or information. What it represents may be yours, but the instrument itself belongs to the government.
Destroy a single dollar bill and you can be prosecuted for destroying government property. You don’t own the cash, the government does. The government backs it, secures it to ensure that its value is not reduced by fraud or counterfeiting, guarantee’s that the face value is backed by the full weight of the US government, and that the real value that your one dollar bill represents is backed by some tangible asset.
IOW, it’s the governments cash. It represents something of value, be that time, energy, metals, or information. What it represents may be yours, but the instrument itself belongs to the government.
Jan 17, 2010, 10:20 am
#323
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,054
Jan 17, 2010, 10:45 am
#324
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,129
Jan 17, 2010, 11:20 am
#325
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
The XRay operator has no way of knowing if there is a large stack of cash in someones bag. Or even a small one. Period.
Its not like we can see Jacksons picture on the XRay Screen, we see a organic block that could be a book, an explosive, a stack of cash, or just a durned newspaper. And since the possibility exists that it may be an explosive, the administrative search process remains unblemished.
Feel better now?
Its not like we can see Jacksons picture on the XRay Screen, we see a organic block that could be a book, an explosive, a stack of cash, or just a durned newspaper. And since the possibility exists that it may be an explosive, the administrative search process remains unblemished.
Feel better now?
Jan 17, 2010, 11:46 am
#326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,129
agreed as to what the "stack of cash" may/may not appear like on the x-ray so pull it out, flip thru it to see that there are no hidden razor blades (or other similar threat) and be done with it as once it is determined that the currency is not a threat nor a w,i or i, it is not your concern. period and and of story
Jan 17, 2010, 11:51 am
#327
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: SW Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors, Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 4,831
Destroy a single dollar bill and you can be prosecuted for destroying government property. You don’t own the cash, the government does. The government backs it, secures it to ensure that its value is not reduced by fraud or counterfeiting, guarantee’s that the face value is backed by the full weight of the US government, and that the real value that your one dollar bill represents is backed by some tangible asset.
You simply don't have any idea of what you are talking about, Ron.
It is NOT illegal to destroy money. You are well within your rights to shred hundred dollar bills and use them as mattress or pillow stuffing if you wish. Additionally, you are free to melt down U.S. coins and retrieve their base metals, if you wish. There is no law stopping you.
What you cannot do is destroy or mutilate currency to commit fraud. Stuffing a pillow with shredded bills is not fraud, and I know of plenty of places that have those machines where you can stick in a penny, turn the crank and it will flatten the penny and imprint something on it.
That is illegal?
Jan 17, 2010, 12:11 pm
#328
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I hate to stick my nose in this ... but after a little web searching, it looks like both sides are right on this one.
In short: the rules are different for paper currency and coinage.
For paper, TSORon appears to be correct:
I can't seem to find anything else that would qualify this; at face value, it looks like destroying paper currency is in fact against the law.
For coinage, however, the rule is different:
So, destroying or defacing a coin isn't illegal, unless you've got fraudulent intent in doing so (e.g. trying to turn a nickel into a quarter). Otherwise, you can make all the elongated pennies you like.
In short: the rules are different for paper currency and coinage.
For paper, TSORon appears to be correct:
Originally Posted by 18 USC 333
Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
For coinage, however, the rule is different:
Originally Posted by 18 USC 331
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled or lightened - shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. (emphasis added)
Jan 17, 2010, 12:16 pm
#329
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,616
And while you're at it, Ron, perhaps you'll answer my question - Do you call a LEO every time you encounter a white powder substance in a carry on?
